Large Scale Central

In need of battery advice

Electronics Power and Sound
#41

Hey, guys! What about battery capacity? I visited the RCS site and looked at a 2200 and 6600 battery. The latter is pretty big and would have to go into the boiler. So will the 2200 work OK? After all, it’s only a 10-wheeler, though it does have Phoenix sound. And because I have a short attention span< I don’t seem myself spedning all day running my locos.

Since I can just pull the top off the tender to access everything (I’m too lazy to reinsert the screws that hold the tender shell to the platform), if I wanted to keep it simple, I could just unplug the battery from the control/sound system and plug it into the charger, right?

But I should use a fuse, right? How come? What’s gonna short out?

Please 'splain.

#42

I have a 14.4 volt 2600 mA battery operating my Lionel Atlantic via an older Airwire G2. The 2600 mA is more than enough for me. If I was to just let the Atlantic run by itself at 25 - 30 smph with 4-5 cars and a caboose in a loop on a fairly level track, I could get 2.5 - 3 hours before the batteries gave up.

Since I tend to operate, run slowly, stop to throw switches, stop to change directions, stop to spot cars, stop to re-hydrate, I can extend that to 4 hours easily.

Since I’m not getting paid for this, I tend to wear out long before my batteries do.

:slight_smile:

I really don’t need anything more for a small loco.

Now, for a consist of 3 Dash-9’s, I would insist on each loco having its own battery of at least 18-20 volts (or more) and probably 3600 mA. Again, I will probably wear out before the batteries do, but its nice to know that I won’t have to carry the locomotives back to the barn, that they can get there on their own.

Your mileage may vary.

I’d use a fuse between the batteries and the electronics to prevent the release of the magic smoke.

#43

Milliamp = run time, Volts = Speed. I run 21.5 to 22.2 Volt Lithium Ion packs rated at 2000 to 2200 mah (depending on brand). I run my K-27’s for 1 1/2 hours with no issues. Never run longer so I don’t know the limit but like Steve, I usually move on to another engine after that long. All of my R/C engines are switchable to track power should the battery run out of charge.

I also run track power, sometimes at the same time! I have 6 Jackson Sharpe coaches that are lit via track power often (always) towed by one of the K’s.

#44

Good advice. Like Steve, I tend to run my locos slowly, because that is prototypical. And they are all “steam,” so no consists. Don’t think I’ll ever go bigger than a Connie I (have two that have yet to run) and might buy a C-19 if the prices come down after everyone gets bored and dealers have to remainder them (last year at the Anaheim all-scale show I saw Mikes going for cheap).

Mark, good advice on keeping the track hot, I got three Bachmann coaches (the 1:22.5 kind, not the 1:20.3 ones) and at least one is lighted by track power. Still, I don’t do much (any) night running so…

#45

Joe Rusz said:

And they are all “steam,” so no consists.

I don’t think you really know what a “consist” means in RR terms. Check this out…

http://www.vnerr.com/news/slang.htm

  • consist - Any train, no matter what the make up or configuration.
#46

Del, just visited your “site” and decided I’m gonna “gamble a stamp and send for Charles Atlas’ free catalog.” Oh no, wait! I meant to say I’m gonna get one of your battery conversion modules and try it on for size. Looks pretty simple and a lot neater than the rat’s nest I currently have. I’ll be in touch.

After all of my inane questions, can you believe I was once an electronic technician in the AF?

#47

Heh, heh! Just noticed a great pun–“the rat’s nest I currently have.” Ohm my gosh, that’s re-volting. But I couldn’t resist. I got amps in my pants (Pamps? Oops, better not go there). :slight_smile:

#48

Joe -

Regardless of whether you run tack power in the future or ‘pull the plug’ as you say; I’d advise you still isolate the pick-ups from the battery system. You can just cut the connection, or install a DPDT switch to allow you to choose track or battery as the power source.

If you don’t cut the connection there is a possibility that current could be pulled from the battery through the track from something as simple as wet ballast to a wye or reverse loop that wasn’t isolated 'cause you run battery power. Also, if you visit other railroads, some battery only tracks do have intentional dead shorts.

You really must have a fuse (or polyswithc) if you use LiIon. If the battery gets shorted due to a malfunction in the electronics it can quickly go into thermal runaway. Hopefully the on-board protection circuit would save it from burning. You don’t want to rely on the internal protection because once it trips the pack is done.

#49

Its always better to burn a 5 cent fuse than a hunnert dollar battery or 4-5 hunnert dollars worth of 'lectronics.

#50

Joe Zullo said:

Joe Rusz said:

And they are all “steam,” so no consists.

I don’t think you really know what a “consist” means in RR terms. Check this out…

http://www.vnerr.com/news/slang.htm

  • consist - Any train, no matter what the make up or configuration.

Joe Zullo… I do not think it means what you think it means. Yes, a consist can refer to the entire train. It also can refer to two or more locomotives “consisted,” together. If you insist on using the term “lash up,” noted elsewhere in your reference, you will only identify yourself as a noob.

#51

Joe Rusz said:

Good advice. Like Steve, I tend to run my locos slowly, because that is prototypical. And they are all “steam,” so no consists. Don’t think I’ll ever go bigger than a Connie I (have two that have yet to run) and might buy a C-19 if the prices come down after everyone gets bored and dealers have to remainder them (last year at the Anaheim all-scale show I saw Mikes going for cheap).

Mark, good advice on keeping the track hot, I got three Bachmann coaches (the 1:22.5 kind, not the 1:20.3 ones) and at least one is lighted by track power. Still, I don’t do much (any) night running so…

Joe, steam often ran with helpers, so they were often “consisted” together.

Three steamers consisted together…

(http://www.railpictures.net/images/d1/4/1/6/8416.1327096232.jpg)

Three more…

(http://www.railpictures.net/images/d1/7/6/8/9768.1373560098.jpg)

Right click, then “View Image.”

#52

I “Double-head” my K’s frequently. Both are battery equipped and controlled through a single CAB on my Revo controller. I did have to lengthen one of the front couplers to give better swing in the curves but it works quite well.

#53

Steve Featherkile said:

Joe Zullo said:

Joe Rusz said:

And they are all “steam,” so no consists.

I don’t think you really know what a “consist” means in RR terms. Check this out…

http://www.vnerr.com/news/slang.htm

  • consist - Any train, no matter what the make up or configuration.

Joe Zullo… I do not think it means what you think it means. Yes, a consist can refer to the entire train. It also can refer to two or more locomotives “consisted,” together. If you insist on using the term “lash up,” noted elsewhere in your reference, you will only identify yourself as a noob.

I don’t use the term ‘lash up’.

#54

Joe,

On the chuff triggers, you can use the stock Bachmann chuff triggers if you like. I’m not a big fan of mechanical triggers, but they work okay for the purpose so long as they’re clean. On the 4-6-0, there are two chuffs per revolution of the drivers instead of the prototypical 4. Some folks prefer that–especially those who run unprototypically fast. If you want 4 chuffs per revolution, you can add another contact strip to the drum or go to magnets on the tender wheel. On the 4-6-0, I’d probably go with just 2. That won’t quite be 4 chuffs per revolution, but 3 will still be too many. If you’re particularly OC about that, you can replace the wheels on the tender with wheels that are 1" diameter, then your two magnets will result in exactly 4 chuffs per revolution of the drivers since the drivers are 2" diameter. 1" diameter wheels will fit in the stock Bachmann trucks without any trouble.

If you have a Phoenix sound system and the programming software, you can leave the chuff drum as is, and program the board to give 2 chuffs every time it’s triggered. The board measures the time between chuffs and keeps a pretty good average. Aside from missing a chuff or two when first starting out, you really don’t notice.

In terms of doubleheading, it was common on standard gauge lines, but not so much on narrow gauge. The D&RGW–while famous for their doubleheaded Ks, helpers, etc.–was really the exception to the rule. Certainly on the eastern lines it was rare; grades were fairly mild and traffic was light to where a single locomotive could easily handle the typical train. I’m trying to think of whether I’ve ever seen a photo of doublheaded locos on railroads other than those in Colorado, and I’m coming up empty. Perhaps a logging line, or special Picnic trains or fan trips, but nothing in “regular” service. Maybe some of the California/Nevada lines, perhaps? I don’t have a lot of resources on them and they ran fairly light locomotives.

Later,

K

#55

Wowee! This is getting to be a lengthy thread, which doesn’t even belong to me. Sorry, Ray.

Kevin, I’m sticking with the loco axle trigger because it’s the simplest solution for me. BTW, two-inch tender wheels? Ain’t that kinda big?

I have two 13-year Phoenix systems, which I have no means of programming. However, some years ago, I sent one of them to Ann Arbor to have it set up for real-time whistle and bell operation, which I control with my Train Engineer. The other system has the stock, track- magnet-actuated setup. Wish I could use it’s crossing whistle and also the cylinder blow-off and brake squeal functions–triggered by me. Maybe they can reprogram it for that and I will call Phoenix Monday.

FYI, here’s what the tender in question looks like. The Train Engineer receiver is on the left and the Phoenix is next to it, with the so-called “booster” battery, which keeps the sound working when the track power is off, is located underneath. I figure I’ll ditch the battery (it’s dead anyway) and put the lIon or Nimh battery in that spot. BTW, the piece of FedEx cardboard is what the antenna wire wraps around. Next time, I’ll be neat and use a piece of styrene.

#56

Two inch diameter drivers vs. 1" diameter tender wheels. Two magnets on the tender wheels = 4 chuffs per revolution of the drivers.

Are they the 2K2 boards? If they’re currently set up to be triggered by track magnets, then you use the same leads to trigger them via the controller, provided the controller can trigger accessories. Your photos didn’t come through, so I can’t see anything of the equipment you’re using.

Later,

K

#57

Kevin et all, FYI, here’s the photo–after I figured out how to make it go.

Jon, if I completely disconnect track power, i.e. pull out the power leads from the terminals on my Train Engineer receiver, and substitute the leads from the battery, how’s that track current gonna jump into my battery system? I don’t believe it can happen. I mean, with the two track power leads just blowin’ in the wind, you’ve got a big “open,” so no matter what you do or what kinda powered track you run on, with an incomplete circuit, nothin’ is gonna happen, I’m pretty sure. Not at 14 volts!

BTW, now that the photo is up, I should explain that the three wires running from the tender are for the chuff, power to the motor from the Train Engineer, and track power coming from the pickups on the loco’s drivers (I also have power coming from the tender wheels, which, Kevin, are LGB, which I chose because they pickup electricity (I hate wipers).

(http://freightsheds.largescalecentral.com/users/joerusz915/Tender2.jpg)

#58

Joe - Correct. If your track pick-up wires terminate to nowhere then you’re good. I might have misunderstood your original question.

#59

Ordered my 'lectronics stuff from Del today and will order the 14.8 volt liIon battery and charger tomorow. I poked around both of my tenders and discovered that only one has the later model Aristo Train Engineer receiver, which has an add-on module that allows you to control the whistle, bell, etc. The other, older receiver, doesn’t have that option, so at this point (i.e. using the old receiver) the whistle and bell can be triggered only by track magnets or by letting the system do it in the pre-programmed mode, where it tries to sense when to blow the whistle, etc. I prolly should get new stuff but $$$$

#60

Joe, I say use what you got and upgrade when you can. Sure you wont have some of the newest tech, but you can still run trains.

I think what Jon was hitting on is to possibly add a DPDT switch and wire track power to one side and batteries to the other. Then you have the capability to run on both track power or battery.

The 14.8 volt is plenty for a little loco like the 10-wheeler. I use 14.8 volt on all my locos, but I also run narrow gauge and they are never in that much of a hurry. I usually use 2600 mAh packs for my locos. This gives me about 1.5 hours running time. I do have a 4% ruling grade so it can sap the batteries. In my K-27 I added a second 2600 mAh battery to increase the running time to over 3 hours. That is plenty for me I never run that long in one operating session. However, I usually don’t recharge my batteries between sessions so I can run longer the next time. (Lith-Ions don’t discharge when in storage)