Wife informed me this weekend that the in-laws will not be able to watch the kids while we attend the ECLSTS. So once again this friggin’ FRIDAY hobby show during the WORK & SCHOOL week crap that Aristocraft pulls has screwed me. Come on guys! EVERY other train show has decent weekend hours. I can make it on Saturday but if the show closes by the time I get there, what is the point? Both the wife & I can take vacation this year for it, BUT the kids still have school so no go…
Chas
Can you say “educational absence”? Take them along. There will be hands on lessons in history, economics, and commercial arts…
I’m serious. If the bloody Daytona 500 is educational, so is a trip to York with a side trip to the RRMofPa at Strasburg.
Call the school and ask them to send the form home.
Not applicable in NY state. Being the son of a teacher and grandson to 2 teachers (I married a teacher but she switched professions),Though shall never miss school unless deathly ill. Seriously I’d hoped to NOT take the girls with us on this trip. I may just go by myself though. Sleep in the car. More money to spend on trains.
Chas
I dont get it, so what if you had to take a family trip for a wedding or funeral or something, NY state will po-po your plans and dictate that ye shall not remove thy children from a school day???
Not being to the show before, I’m guessing that the Friday show has classes and seminars that are not repeated on Saturday? I looked at the show schedule and saw it was only Friday and Saturday, thats insane to me! No Sunday show? Is this in Utah or being run by Mennonites? Almost every show I go to here has been on a Sunday.
Rough and Tumble Engineers show in nearby Kinzers ends on Saturday – about half their active members are Amish, tho.
As for others, the problem is many exhibitors have ‘real lives’, which entail being back at work on Monday morning.
Coolspring Power Museum shows used to run through Sunday. About 2/3 of the exhibitors bugged out by noon Sunday to get home to start the work week, so they changed it to end Saturday… now they leave by noon Saturday. Like lemmings going off a cliff.
Cabin Fever Expo and Greenberg shows both had to put in their vendor contract dire threats about the consequences of tearing down early on Sundays in an attempt to stem the early exodus.
Many other shows have been forced to make arrangements either for supplementary exhibits on Sunday, or reduce admission for folks to see half a show.
OK, it’s often easier for some folks to get Friday off than Monday, BUT it’s sorta funny how more folks claim “work” as the reason they HAVE to leave on Saturday afternoon during feetball season - even if they only live 20 miles away… I guess they are all unofficial coaches and refs?
Vic,
Family things are different. Even then, when I was growing up trips, weddings, and such were scheduled around school breaks. The longest amount of time I had off was for eye surgery and recovery. Then my grandmother “homeschooled” me. I ended up being accelerated ahead in 4th grade because of it but then slipped back in 8th grade.
So far the girls have perfect attendance. Don’t want to ruin that for them. NY state has some bizarre rules, but this is my family upbringing and guidelines more than NY state. Wife & I agree, none of this home schooling unless we have to.
My complaint right along about this show is it is always held on Friday with Saturday as obligatory and a short day. Closes at 4pm? Sorry, I worked in a hobby shop and have worked many a train and/or model show and know that vendors are mostly packed up by noon the final day. The excuse I got when I asked about it on another forum from one of the management were that the vendors wanted the extra time to travel. Ok fine, BUT I want the extra day to travel & shop too! So if you do not want MY money you won’t be there when I can get there. Works for me too. I’m a working father with a family to take care of, both kids and an aging parent. Negotiating to get the time off and arrange care for the kids and parent and pets is difficult at best.
I work weekends so having friday works great for me. If it were Saterday and Sunday like most shows I cant attend. In ways the friday works nice for me.
They changed the show a few years ago from a Fri Afternoon/Night + Sat all day + early close Sunday to the Friday all day / early close Sat. format/ Supposedly it was to answer demand / responding to attendance numbers. It probably saves them a bundle on hall rental for Sunday. Wish I could do it without taking a vacation day, but even when it was a 3 day show I usually showed up on Friday. In the end, I kind of like the two day format. Gives me Sunday for a slow ride home with lots of stops.
I like the ability to drive home on Sunday as well. Better than driving home on Monday or Sunday evening and getting home around 2-3AM.
LAO
I was a vendor at various shows for about a decade. I tried, as much as possible, to be open ALL show hours - and then some. Usually not even starting to tear down until 2 or 3pm the final day. I think it paid off ONCE when a guy bought $125 worth of stuff during a square dance, as I sat there in the dark reading a book by lamplight. Most other times we were treated as some sort of free babysitting for people too lazy to watch their own brats, or the local lonely hearts society for folks to gripe that “everyone left early” (not everybody else, everybody)… gee, thanks.
Even better are the folks that tell you “So-and-so (who isn’t at the show) has THAT for $x”, and generally picking it apart all weekend, THEN are mad at YOU because you sold it to someone else (at your price) by the time they finally decided they wanted it - about 5 minutes before the show closes.
I like people, but ‘the public’ often makes me want to scream…
The time we made it to the ECLSTS on Saturday, in the fall … ALL the vendors had that certain weary hangdog look. The one that says “I could have gotten richer this weekend by staying home and flushing $20 bills down the toilet…” When folks have that look bargaining is not fun, you may well get a ‘good deal’, but you’re taking food out of some kid’s mouth to do it.
When folks have that look bargaining is not fun, you may well get a ‘good deal’, but you’re taking food out of some kid’s mouth to do it.
Hope the kid ate breakfast.
Dave Marconi said:I honestly hope you're trying to be funny. Otherwise my respect for you will drop to about the same as a shoplifter or scam artist..... Too many folks really DON'T give a crap about anybody but themselves anymore. It isn't "cool", or 'good business' it's just being a total jerk.
Hope the kid ate breakfast.
Mik,
You really should come to the Spring ECLSTS and meet Hollywood and some of the others. Then you wouldn’t take us so seriously 
Ralph
Who said I take you all seriously? Selfish jerks that get their jollies trying to screw others just happen to be one of my pet peeves…
Vendors go to a show to attract an audience that they do not normally attract. Consumers go to a show to ‘get a bargain’. As the old saying goes, “…never the Twain shall meet.”
I know that if no vendors attended a show then I would not waste my time going there. If consumers are only after a bargain then vendors will eventually be scared off. The recent show duplication in California is an example of vendors making a choice, rather than a chore, of attending.
A ‘great’ deal to me is the kind when both parties come away happy…
I once had a guy get real mad because he came up, pointed to a $300 item and snapped, “I know where I can get THOSE for $100!”… I simply smiled warmly, picked up my checkbook and pen and cheerfully responded, “Great! I’ll take 3!”
I also gave a guy both barrels for bragging how he got this (approximately $600) item off a guy’s widow for $50 by telling her it wasn’t worth anything… Told him not only wasn’t I interested in it for $150, I wasn’t interested in doing business with him EVER.
Maybe my screwy sense of ethics is why I went OUT of business? I dunno.
Anyway, in an attempt to re-rail the thread. If the in-laws are out, maybe the outlaws are in? You got any family local? Or maybe your kids got friends with parents you’d trust for an overnighter?
Mik said:Yes but on the flip side I'm also offering to take [b]my[/b] hard earned money and put some of it back into their pockets so their kids can eat.
When folks have that look bargaining is [u]not[/u] fun, you may well get a 'good deal', but you're taking food out of some kid's mouth to do it.
Instead of the really bad attitude Garage Sale approach of “I’ll give to a dollar for this” , I will ask “what are you asking for this?” I have been surprised by some of the prices quoted when I let them set the base price, I got a full box of O gauge trains for $25, thats what the vendor wanted so that what I paid them, part of the problem is that some vendors think Y is worth X dollars no matter how bad the condition its is, I wont tell the vendor that I’ll just say thanks and move on, but I have haggled a few items down when the vendor wanted to make a sale and I was offering a fair price, I do my homework and know what most things are worth, especially when I know I can get it elsewhere and I wont pay above its worth simply because it has Lionel or LGB stamped on it. I’ll make no apologies for trying to get the best deal I can, I’m not wealthy and I tell them that, I have X dollars to spend now you want X+5, I dont have the extra 5 so I guess you’ll have to hope the next guy will pay that. Truth is the last train show I went to the vendors were very eager to sell, I went looking to buy a NYC ballcap and maybe one or two cars, I came out of there with a complete Marx trainset, litho AB Marx diesel set and a bunch of accessories and these guys were happy campers to have guys like me forking over the cash. Anyway thats my 2cents.
Vic, you and I would probably get along fine. I always tried, perhaps too hard, to be fair.
However, if you’ve never had a guy take that, “but all I have is $20” approach, then whip out a wad of $50s, AND expects you to break one of them… then you don’t really know what “irritated” means. Guys like that are the ones I’m talking about. Not the poor stiff that really only has $20.
Trying to get a fair deal is one thing. Being downright cheap and/or abusive is another kettle of fish. MOST people instinctively understand this. But 5% (closer to 10% on a bad year) seem to think that “the customer is always right” gives them free license to be a total jagoff. If all you wanna pay is wholesale, then get a G-D-d vendor’s license and fork over the minimum stocking purchase amount they set on most of this stuff. If you’re not willing to do that then TRY to remember that the seller not only has his kids to feed - just like you, but he paid the table fees (NOT insignificant at many venues), travel expenses, motels and food to be there for you to dicker WITH…
Simply treat the vendor like you want to be treated, and both of you will usually come away smiling, whether you buy anything this time or not.
Now that we’ve mostly settled THAT, how do we get our good buddy Chas a babysitter?
Mik said:Yep hope that's not a problem.Dave Marconi said:I honestly hope you're trying to be funny. Otherwise my respect for you will drop to about the same as a shoplifter or scam artist..... Too many folks really DON'T give a crap about anybody but themselves anymore. It isn't "cool", or 'good business' it's just being a total jerk.
Hope the kid ate breakfast.
But, responding to the extremism set forth.
I too only have so much to spend. If I get a good deal by paying a fair price after a little haggling, so be it. And, if I get taken by a dealer it’s on me. Want to tell me that some dealers don’t over charge ?
If I’m lucky to get something at a give away price that’s good too.Like the Aristo stock car with sound card and metal wheels I got for $15.00 when I walked in the door to a local show this weekend. Dealer asked 15.00 and I paid.
If the dealer is under cutting himself that’s his fault not mine or anyone else’s. I never made a sale that I couldn’t afford. But I’ve seen dealers who think nothing of buying used at rock bottom and sell at top dollar. Have you ever sold your trains to a shop ?
You get the I’ll give you X amount for the loco and a couple bucks for the cars but the track,transformer, accessories are take it or leave it.Believe it or not I had to pay for everything
Do you think the dealer is going to give the transformer and accessories away to some lucky fool or include them with the train he just got from you ?
My kids need to eat too.
Hope that clears things up. But just in case it doesn’t, your respect or lack there of won’t bother me one bit. I’ve earned what I have from those I know