Jerry ,
How ya doin’? Nice to hear from you again .
I fully support your post , nicely put .
Mike
Jerry McColgan said:
..................................................The whole concept of who did what and what secrets are going to leak out puzzles me because in my mind everyone involved has an agenda that dictates what they will say and how they will react as the situation evolves.
I’d rather play with my toy trains than worry about it.
Cheers,
Jerry
Quite right!
I’m most interested in what is being released in German and then follwed by English.
Now, as in the past, I find that LGB’s translations have an uncanny semblance to their “models”; sometimes they get compressed, at other times they get stretched.
For that precise reason I find it advisable to check if things are “to scale” - “models” or press releases - and then let the rest of the interested LS community know what the score is. Comparison charts in the one instance, translation in the other. Seems to work quite well.
Hans-Joerg Mueller said:
...................Now, as in the past, I find that LGB’s translations have an uncanny semblance to their “models”; sometimes they get compressed, at other times they get stretched.
For that precise reason I find it advisable to check if things are “to scale” - “models” or press releases - and then let the rest of the interested LS community know what the score is. Comparison charts in the one instance, translation in the other. Seems to work quite well.
Well, some people buy this stuff, others don´t. An increasing number of customers don´t. More people simply play with their trains, than read or write in fori (forums).
I am sure, EPL/LGB would be happy to hire washerwoman Mueller with her excellent advise & translating service. If she brings along some millions to invest, she´d be more than welcome.
Otherwise they have to continue, to check in his RhB forum for answers to questions they never had.
Have Fun
Juergen Zirner
Zirner said:
More people simply play with their trains, than read or write in fori (forums).Have Fun
Juergen Zirner
I found another that should!
The Lone Railroader
The Lone Railroader said:Zirner said:
More people simply play with their trains, than read or write in fori (forums).Have Fun
Juergen Zirner
I found another that should!The Lone Railroader
Hi Marvin,
True enough, in addition to polishing his Northamerican English vocabulary, he should also have a refresher on his Latin, or when in doubt consult the “Duden Fremdwörterbuch”, if he has one and can find it. 
PS Plural for “Forum” = “Fora”
Mike Morgan said:Hi Mike,
Jerry , How ya doin'? Nice to hear from you again . I fully support your post , nicely put . Mike
I enjoyed your link to Flame Warriors. I had never heard of it and I enjoyed it.
http://redwing.hutman.net/~mreed/index.htm
Regards,
Jerry
Hans-Joerg Mueller said:Is this annother one of the silly rumours of the Funny Swiss Washerwoman? Is the Vatican planning to invest in EPL/LGB? The Pope was in Bavaria a few days ago. Do we have to place our orders in Latin now?
True enough, in addition to polishing his Northamerican English vocabulary, he should also have a refresher on his Latin, or when in doubt consult the "Duden Fremdwörterbuch", if he has one and can find it. ;) :) ;)
My “Duden Fremdwörterbuch” is the 1966 edition. Don´t know, if it is still valid. The printing now looks very much smaller than 40 years ago.
Have Fun
Juergen Zirner
Hans-Joerg Mueller said:Hi HJ,
Now, as in the past, I find that LGB's translations have an uncanny semblance to their "models"; sometimes they get compressed, at other times they get stretched. For that precise reason I find it advisable to check if things are "to scale" - "models" or press releases - and then let the rest of the interested LS community know what the score is. Comparison charts in the one instance, translation in the other. Seems to work quite well.
Naturally I am curious how the situation will work out because eventually there will be some sort of change that will probably have some impact on current LGB owners and future LGB buyers.
Fortunately, due to the quality of LGB products, I could probably put one of my LGB Moguls on the rails, turn on the power, and expect it to still be running when the banks and lawyers have finally figured out what will happen to LGB.
If LGB stays in business and continues to provide the highest quality products and services, nothing will have changed for me.
If LGB either goes out of business or their quality and/or service drops to that of their competition, the value of my current LGB products will probably increase significantly.
Frankly I would be surprised if LGB public information was not given a positive spin just as I would expect it from any other company. It is the responsibility of public information for any company to give assurance to buyers of their products to have confidence in continuing to purchase their products.
Even the mayor has an agenda. He does not want his citizens to think that somehow HE might have contributed to or failed to act to prevent the bankruptcy of LGB and possible loss of jobs of his constituents. A mayor is a politician and every politician has an agenda (getting reelected). A politician without a spin doctor would be as rare as a company without a spin doctor.
Every time we read a newspaper or watch TV news we are viewing something that someone somewhere has already put a spin to.
Even CNN and FOX cannot simply let us watch what some international figure actually says. Invariably they cut the speech short and then give us their interpretation to what we were hoping to have heard.
Were your translations correct? I would assume that they were. My “unspin” on everything is that everyone seems to be running around saying the same thing: “its not MY fault.”
Yes, it is interesting and I can see how it could even be entertaining to those who are fortunate enough to be unaffected by any of it.
Regards,
Jerry
Jerry McColgan said:
… Were your translations correct? I would assume that they were. My “unspin” on everything is that everyone seems to be running around saying the same thing: “its not MY fault.” Yes, it is interesting and I can see how it could even be entertaining to those who are fortunate enough to be unaffected by any of it. Regards, Jerry
Jerry, So far only the desperate have questioned my translation accuracy, interesting “Genesis” thread on MLS and a few “questions” regarding the word “rudimentary”. Highly entertaining considering the source of the “questions” and the command of English in that corner. Because of everyone running around - in circles to match the spin - with “not my fault” statements I did the translations. BTW what do you mean “not my fault”? Each and every one of the RBB is responsible in some manner! If all those “loyalists” would have kept on buying at the rate they thought everyone else should, EPL/LGBoA would still be smiling all the way to the banks.
But even the RBB had to step a bit shorter. I actually have a few more LGB items coming in the mail, so it certainly isn’t my fault.
Of course I’m also a very careful consumer, if it doesn’t fit I just don’t buy it. 
PS We live in interesting GRR times.
Quote:
Naturally I am curious how the situation will work out because eventually there will be some sort of change that will probably have some impact on current LGB owners and future LGB buyers.Regards,
Jerry
Jerry
There are several possible buyers lining up in the shadows to buy EPL/LGB…If one of them does buy EPL, I expect the Richters to no longer be a part of EPL/LGB in Germany.
The LGBoA sell off to G-45 spooked the German Banks. Who caused the calamity that is now unfolding. However, the end result would have only been delayed with LGBoA going down with EPL in the end.
There are many unanswered questions on the money trail (or lack of money) on the LGBoA sell off.
It’s only been six days…It’s going to get very interesting.
The Lone Railroader
Marvin,
Well, it will be interesting to read one day for how much LGBoA was sold to G45 and what the terms were.
Somewhere along the line - in the umpteen write-ups on the matter - I came across the KPMG involvement as an appraiser/evaluator.
I have seen it before that KPMG would start out in that capacity and as things progressed, they advanced to the role of forensic auditor. As you mentioned it has only been six days. More to come…
Hans-Joerg Mueller said:
[b]BTW what do you mean "not my fault"? [/b] Each and every one of the RBB is responsible in some manner!If all those “loyalists” would have kept on buying at the rate they thought everyone else should, EPL/LGBoA would still be smiling all the way to the banks.
But even the RBB had to step a bit shorter.
Hi HJ,
By “not my fault” I was referring to the article where “Mayor Ulrich Maly contradicted the accusations the city’s economic development department had wasted time to intervene. Roland Fleck, an industrial management consultant, had been in mediation talks with the parties months ago.” and similar statements.
I’m still trying to find those “loyalists” and the LGB “mafia” so I can join. Can you direct me to them?
“the RBB had to step a bit shorter.” I have no idea what you are referring to.
For that matter, like you “I’m also a very careful consumer, if it doesn’t fit I just don’t buy it.” For that reason I don’t pay attention to or read topics about RHB or RBB or Genesis because I mainly model US Steam and (when forced by ultra cheap prices) early US Diesels.
It took me quite awhile but I think I finally found the reference to the Genesis you mentioned. It appears someone had a problem with a LGB Genesis and it took awhile to get it taken care of but meanwhile the Marketing Manager of LGB jumped in and personally got involved in the situation. If anything it impressed me that LGB would care enough for their National Marketing Manager to respond on a public forum when few other factory representatives dare set foot on public forums anymore.
I have received screw ups from most manufacturers. Most have responded as well as possible as soon as possible but not always to my total satisfaction (even LGB).
The problem with the Internet is that a single bad experience (no matter how authentic it is) can be blown so far out of proportion that some folks are naive enough to accept it as representative of a company or of a specific product.
Personally, if I wanted a LGB Genesis or RHB or whatever I would not hesitate to buy one because I am more impressed with the quantity of my positive experiences with a LGB products than I am with someone else’s problems with a single product or even multiple versions of that singular product.
In their own way all Internet forums put a spin on everything because the posters represent such a tiny percentage of the actual number of consumers of any given product.
Had I believed the forums I would never have purchased my 9 LGB Mikados and thus I would have been deprived of a great deal of pleasure I have received from them with absolutely no problems beyond a defective (or improperly coded) decoder that was easily removed.
You had said “Ever set a LGB F7 beside another F unit from the competitors? Notice anything?”
Well, actually I have and the result was for me to rush out and buy a bunch more LGB F7’s. I’d had 24 Aristo FA/B-1’s for years but my first LGB F7 changed everything. I now still have the FA/B-1’s but they are now outnumbered by 29 LGB F7’s.
Two things happened. The F7A/B’s out WOWed the FA/B-1’s and the LGB F7B sound is to me the best diesel sound available and with dual amplifiers in the LGB F7B’s the most economical premium sound available.
My LGB F7 ABBA’s blasting high quality sound from all four locos created a totally new experience for me and got me to actually liking some diesels.
I prefer the appearance of my Aristo Heavyweights but they often remain parked while I run my LGB Streamliners - because the LGB Streamliners can run anywhere on my layout and the Aristo Heavyweights cannot.
Every story has multiple interpretations according to the preferences of the individual.
Cheers,
Jerry
The Lone Railroader said:
JerryThere are several possible buyers lining up in the shadows to buy EPL/LGB…If one of them does buy EPL, I expect the Richters to no longer be a part of EPL/LGB in Germany.
The LGBoA sell off to G-45 spooked the German Banks. Who caused the calamity that is now unfolding. However, the end result would have only been delayed with LGBoA going down with EPL in the end.
There are many unanswered questions on the money trail (or lack of money) on the LGBoA sell off.
It’s only been six days…It’s going to get very interesting.
The Lone Railroader
Hi Marvin,
I can see that it will get interesting and I can see that it is possible that the Richters will no longer be part of EPL/LGB which I will find very sad.
My personal opinion is that it would be a very unwise business decision for the buyers to disassociate the Richter family from the future EPL/LGB. There is something “special” about buying family oriented products from a family owned or related company.
I have never met any of the Richters but it is unfortunate when any family loses control of a company they founded - especially when that company has provided so much pleasure to so many people all around the world.
Perhaps there are questions about G45 but Dave Buffington strikes me as an excellent choice from the viewpoint of American LGB owners.
I simply wish the whole situation was less public because I fear it will create a pall over the entire large scale community and those considering joining it.
I don’t enjoy blood sports either.
Regards,
Jerry
Jerry
I have been friends with Wolfgang for many years. We exchange Birthday and Christmas Cards each year. I feel very sorry for him having to see his life’s work destroyed. I don’t share the same feelings for his son and nephew. And I know many others that feel the same.
I have conversed with Dave Buffington many times over the years. And I’ve met him at several of the Old LGB Club Conventions. I’ve always gotten along with him. However in his current capacity, I feel he is more of a figurehead with Rolf Richter calling the shots behind the scenes of G45.
If the banks’ message is as it has been relayed to me, I believe they want new management for LGB without Rolf and Johannes.
I’m sure LGB will survive, but to sit here and attempt to speculate what will transpire is a waste of time and energy.
The Lone Railroader
Hans-Joerg Mueller said:When did KPMG start to deal with peanuts? Annother one of these Swiss Washerwoman´s stories?
Somewhere along the line - in the umpteen write-ups on the matter - I came across the KPMG involvement as an appraiser/evaluator.
Have Fun
Juergen Zirner
Zirner said:
When did KPMG start to deal with peanuts?Have Fun
Juergen Zirner
The Euro/Dollar Amounts, that I have seen, owed by EPL equate to much, much more than mere peanuts.
The Lone Railroader
Jerry McColgan said:
...............................................................Every story has multiple interpretations according to the preferences of the individual.
Cheers,
Jerry
Quite correct! That’s why, when the chips are down, I just do either the translating or the measuring. As I wrote when I measure or translate people may be gnashing their teeth, go beet-red with embarrassment or anger, be sputtering when typing a reply … but… hard to dispute measurements or nicely translated text.
Oh BTW, my equal half proof reads the translations most of the time. That keeps me “honest” and catches a few more of those pesky typos
And no, you have the wrong thread on MLS Try this one instead
Head to the second post on the second page that’s where the whining fun starts. Absolutely comical! Right after the “profound” comments of the post prior to it, which didn’t address what was questioned but chose to take a little detour. Just as comical.
Now on that “rudimentary” interpretation, when in doubt I’m in the habit to read the original sentence a few more times, if still in doubt I ask my equal half “What do you think?”, right after that it’s phone the author.
Ve have veys in dis house and our veys are wery exakt. Ve leaf looking like fools to di udders.
Sorry about that last one - perhaps it should be Otters. 
Hans-Joerg Mueller said:
no, you have the wrong thread on MLS [url=http://www.mylargescale.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=38523&whichpage=1]Try this one instead[/url] Head to the second post [url=http://www.mylargescale.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=38523&whichpage=2]on the second page[/url] that's where the whining fun starts. Absolutely comical! Right after the "profound" comments of the post prior to it, which didn't address what was questioned but chose to take a little detour. Just as comical.Now on that “rudimentary” interpretation, when in doubt I’m in the habit to read the original sentence a few more times, if still in doubt I ask my equal half “What do you think?”, right after that it’s phone the author.
Hi HJ,
Sorry but I was getting a headache from reading all that stuff about a loco I am not planning to buy and a train that does not fit my layout.
I’m just not into “profound” comments and “rudimentary” interpretations. I never have a clue (or care) whether what I buy is prototypical or not. I would like to buy a LGB UP Hudson (I know UP did not have Hudsons) and a MTH Allegheny without the ugly pumps on the front (I know MTH does not yet make Alleghenies and they all (I think) had the ugly pumps on the front).
I would also like to buy a LGB K-26/7/8 but I would hope they would leave off some of those ugly pipes that are all over the originals.
The simple truth is that prototypical accuracy is not as simple as it sounds. To some of us buyers who buy what we like a prototypically accurate loco might be a turn off when compared to one that is more visually appealing to us.
I really enjoy watching videos of old steam locos and occasionally I will even watch a video of a diesel but the simple truth is that a LOT of those old steam locos were just plain UGLY (to me anyway).
Additionally, some of those old steam locos simply did not sound as good as others did (I have no idea why).
I think the problem is simply that there are not enough buyers to keep all the G Scale manufacturers profitable.
Worse yet, we cannot even get along with each other. Some folks go nuts if I call our hobby G Gauge. Why should they think they have any right to tell me what to call my trains?
Others go over the deep end when I call my FA-1’s and FB-1’s a F1 ABBA.
Language is simply communication. G Gauge communicates to most folks the same thing as G Scale or Large Scale. To the perfectionists, they should learn to be more considerate of those who simply don’t give a sxxt but rather play with toy trains.
The same is true of a F1 ABBA. It may be technically inaccurate but it also achieves the intended purpose of communicating a thought.
The very act of not caring is offensive to some folks. How dumb can a hobby get?
I don’t mind reading reviews of anything - even the extremely critical ones - because I think I am intelligent enough to filter out the biased opinions from the facts and the important (to me) facts from the technically correct but unimportant (to me) facts.
I always find it annoying and insulting when someone buys (or borrows) one of something and then offers his “expert” advice to everyone about whether they should or should not buy it, the company and the horse…
I’m a skeptic. I virtually never believe anyone about anything. I give them credit for their experience but their opinion does not get my checkbook out or get me to put it away.
St. Thomas is my favorite apostle. He thought like I do.
Jerry
The Lone Railroader said:
JerryI have been friends with Wolfgang for many years. We exchange Birthday and Christmas Cards each year. I feel very sorry for him having to see his life’s work destroyed. I don’t share the same feelings for his son and nephew. And I know many others that feel the same.
I have conversed with Dave Buffington many times over the years. And I’ve met him at several of the Old LGB Club Conventions. I’ve always gotten along with him. However in his current capacity, I feel he is more of a figurehead with Rolf Richter calling the shots behind the scenes of G45.
If the banks’ message is as it has been relayed to me, I believe they want new management for LGB without Rolf and Johannes.
I’m sure LGB will survive, but to sit here and attempt to speculate what will transpire is a waste of time and energy.
The Lone Railroader
Hi Marvin,
Most of what seems to upset folks about LGB predates me. I have never met or known any of the Richters and I have never been to a LGB Convention or Unconvention.
The simple truth is that I could never afford the “old” LGB. I used to buy LGB products but most of it was used because I had learned that I needed LGB quality but I could not afford new LGB prices.
I know that a lot has happened internally and between LGB and their distributors and dealers (and LGBMRRC) over the years. I have virtually no knowledge of those things because I was out of the loop since I was simply a buyer of mostly used LGB toy trains.
For whatever the reasons, over these past few years I have found the prices of new LGB products to have dropped to the point that I have been able to move from buying used LGB products to brand new LGB products for the same or less money.
The result is that I have been extremely pleased with the many LGB products I have bought over the years and I consider the prices I have paid to have been very fair and reasonable for what I have received.
When I was pushed into early retirement at a gross reduction of income because my employer had decided that sales agents were cheaper than employees I was bitter but it did not immediately change the quality of the products being sold by my replacements. The market moved on without me and no one cared.
When it comes to buying toy trains with my gross reduction of income my focus is on what I can get for what I have to pay. Based on that perspective the current LGB and LGBoA have served me very well for which I am appreciative.
I learned of the death of Rolf’s daughter during a phone conversation with Dave Buffington. Dave was so upset that he could barely talk on the telephone. I came away from that phone call with a lot of respect for Dave and an appreciation of what Rolf must be going through this year with his daughter dying and his company on the ropes.
I think Dave is far more than just a figurehead and I was personally pleased to hear that (if anyone) Dave was going to be in charge of the company replacing LGBoA.
Regards,
Jerry
You know, it’s probably difficult enough to avoid out and out war on a thread about a bad turn of events for a major manufacturer without deliberately stomping on the beehives of scale/gauge, terminology, standards, brand name support, prototypical accuracy, AND steam v diesel, all in one paragraph.
If it was your intent to generate hostility and start skirmishes between as many people as possible in one post you may have done just that.
If you like less detailed, “visually appealing” models with no particular adherence to scale, prototype, or any particular “rules” … well, bully for you … you might want to stay tuned to what is actually happening at LGB, because, with the glaring exception of the Accucraft “Casey Jones Junior” your biggest source of just that sort of train is in trouble… and without someone close to the source to provide some information as has happened here, all you’d know would be what the public relations folks at the firm in question want you to hear.
As to the trains themselves, you can call them whatever you want, and enjoy them however you please. You are no doubt aware, though, that the general clamor in any kind of “model trains” is for MORE detail, and locomotives that look “Just like the real thing” as much as they can. The folks who want more accurate models use the terminology they do because that’s what the railroad people who knew and loved (or not) the prototypes called them, and codified in their books of rules, bulletins, and the language that developed from the railroad culture that still lives today. These people try to make their model railroading as much like 1:1 scale railroading as possible, and that’s OK, even if there is a second school of thought that does not. If you collect and enjoy comic books, fine… just don’t expect a warm reception and acceptance from the fine art collectors, particularly if there’s only a limited group of artists, and every comic book produced makes fine art harder to get.
Stirring the pot, pressing all the buttons simultaneously, and filling up a thread that has clung by its bare fingernails to the course of following the goings on at LGB with the kind of vitriolic nastiness that will no doubt follow is not helpful, and looks suspiciously like an attempt to derail a discussion in some kind of attempt to “Defend” a favorite manufactuer by preventing discussion of what is arguably the worst set of events to befall them, ever. Doubt it all you like, eventually like your role model you may find yourself feeling rather foolish when confronted inescapably with the truth.