Large Scale Central

Hey Ric, now I know what you mean

General Discussion
#41

Guilt by association is not a fact. It’s an assumption. It’s a common assumption, but it’s not a fact, it’s what lazy people take for fact.

I didn’t actually take a cheap shot at Sarah Palin–I pointed out that it WOULD BE a cheap and unfair shot to assume that she was a drug dealer because her prospective son-in law’s mother apparently is. It would be a case of guilt by association, which is what I’m arguing against here.

“I’m sure you and your profession will try your best to rewrite history to satisfy your liberal agenda”

Can you show me anywhere in this thread where I tried to “rewrite history?” I simply pointed out that there is no evidence that Obama paid money to Blago–in fact, there’s plenty of evidence that he refused to, and in fact the prosecutor in the case, Patrick Fitzgerald, a Republican, has said the Obama was not involved.

You seem to be rewriting the present!

#42

Mike,
You said - “You seem to be rewriting the present!”

I’m not trying to rewrite anything, I’m just accepting the reality of politics, in general, and Illinois politics in particular - having lived and worked in this State since 1975. I never even insinuated that Obama or his people paid money to Blago. That is not even how it is done. I’m just stating Illinois politics are dirty and it is ridiculous to think, assume or deny, that Obama, his people, his party or his politics are above the normal corruption.

"Can you show me anywhere in this thread where I tried to “rewrite history?”

No, not in this thread, but it was an illustration of guilt by association. History is always written by the winners and then justified and supported by educators that promote it as truth and force feed it to future generations. To not recognize this, shows you have drank the kool-aid and believe it is the proper way of doing things. Visit Chicago all you want, just understand that when you are there, it is a bad place and you are putting yourself in a certain amount of risk.

Lazy? Me? Your opinion and your welcome to it. Merry Christmas.

#43

Ric,
I understand your jaded opinion of anyone rising out of the Chicago politics. You may be right.
Time will prove you right, or wrong.
Guilt by association is a fact of life. Doesn’t mean it is right, though.
Over the years I’ve had to associate with many people that didn’t share my values.
Fortunately, when judgment day comes, it is our actions, and not our associations, that are important.
Ralph

#44

Ralph,

I tend to agree with you. Over the years I’ve also had to associate with people that didn’t share my values. I’ve also removed myself from places and situations, because to stay may make me seem guilty by association. I’m a big believer in first impressions and, unlike some others on this list, I do feel you can and will be judged by the company you keep. That may not be correct, but it happens.

#45

Ric sez: “you can and will be judged by the company you keep”.

Well, in that case, (sing it, boys) “We gotta get outta this place”…

Joe

#46
Joe Satnik said:
Ric sez: "you can and will be judged by the company you keep".

Well, in that case, (sing it, boys) “We gotta get outta this place”…

Joe


:lol: :lol: :lol:
Ralph

#47

Ric,

Thanks for the “set-up”. Your check is in the mail.

Ralph,

Take my mother-in-law, please. (Rim shot, cymbal crash.)

(Actually, Barb’s mom is great…)

Joe

#48

An added thought.
I’m not saying Obama is a reformer. So far, nothing I’ve seen indicates this to be so.

But the truth of the matter is, you can not “fix” anything from the “outside” looking in.
You have to jump right in the sh*t and associate with the scum.
So, on the slim chance we someday have enough “good” people in politics who really want to reform the system, they will all be “guilty by association.”
Ralph

#49
mike omalley said:
I simply pointed out that there is no evidence that Obama paid money to Blago--in fact, there's plenty of evidence that he refused to, and in fact the prosecutor in the case, Patrick Fitzgerald, a Republican, has said the Obama was not involved.
Yeah, BHO is way too smart to have done any negotiation or made any offers himself. That's why he sent Rahm Emanuel and some other staff member whose name escapes me to do the negotiations over [b]His Sentate seat[/b]. How do we know this is what happened? Because these meetings have been reported and BHO has denied any wrong doing, but now refuses to release the details of those meetings and other conversations. BHO says their release might hamper the investigation.

This tactic of lie and move on is right out of Bill Clinton’s playbook, but has become widely used by all politicians, regardless of party or other affiliation. Last time I checked, real investigators and prosecutors wanted all the information they could get. So far the only “CHANGE” associated with BHO is the name on the door. The operations inside appear to be the same our country has come to accept from our entitled politicians.

As to citing Patrick Fitzgerald, he too is a joke. Only $4500 bail and not even house arrest for charges this serious? Just more of our politically connected protecting their own!

Happy RRing,

Jerry

#50

If some you think Patrick Fitzgerald is so “great” , please go read a book called Iron Cross, author escapes me right now but his first name is Peter. Some of you say he is Republican, he is not, read the book and find out he should be in jail for treason after 9/11. A 30 year veteran of the FBI said to read this book if you want to really know what happened, all the stuff in the book can be documented, and before some of you go ridacule what I said, go READ the book. I cant stand anyone talking good about this guy, he is lower than trash, read the book.

Tom

#51
Jerry Bowers said:
mike omalley said:
I simply pointed out that there is no evidence that Obama paid money to Blago--in fact, there's plenty of evidence that he refused to, and in fact the prosecutor in the case, Patrick Fitzgerald, a Republican, has said the Obama was not involved.
As to citing Patrick Fitzgerald, he too is a joke. Only $4500 bail and not even house arrest for charges this serious? Just more of our politically connected protecting their own!

Happy RRing,

Jerry


Fitzgerald doesn’t set the bail, the judge does. And bail isn’t punishment, it’s based on an assessment of the likelihood of flight. Bail is assigned so that the suspect won’t flee the country. You get the bail money back after your case is settled. Fiztgerald can recommend a bail amount, and so can Blago’s lawyer, but the judge sets the amount, not Fitzgerald

The judge apparently determined–correctly, it seems–that Blago would not flee the country.

As to secret meetings that Obama won’t reveal, well, they will surely come out in the trial, and if there is some evidence of Obama paying Blago to pick his replacement, well, then Obama should go to jail. There is to date not a scrap of evidence to support it, and again, there is Blago on take saying, about Obama “All they want to give me is gratitude. Fuck them.”

#52
tom huisenga said:
If some you think Patrick Fitzgerald is so "great" , please go read a book called Iron Cross, author escapes me right now but his first name is Peter. Some of you say he is Republican, he is not, read the book and find out he should be in jail for treason after 9/11. A 30 year veteran of the FBI said to read this book if you want to really know what happened, all the stuff in the book can be documented, and before some of you go ridacule what I said, go READ the book. I cant stand anyone talking good about this guy, he is lower than trash, read the book.

Tom


Huh?

I did a search for Patrrick fitzgerald and iron cross and found nothing. He was appointed by Bush, in 2001:

“On September 1, 2001, Fitzgerald was nominated for the position of U.S. Attorney for the Northern District of Illinois on the recommendation of U.S. Senator Peter Fitzgerald (no relation), a Republican from Illinois. On October 24, 2001, the nomination was confirmed by the Senate. The Senator had urged the selection precisely because Patrick was not from Chicago (Patrick said that he had visited Chicago only one day – for a wedding in 1982 – before being selected).[7]”

There are a lot of attacks on Fitzgerald floating around because of the scooter libby/valeri plame case.

You are right about one thing though–he’s not a Republican. He’s registered independent. Nobody said he was great, just that he said Obama was not involved.

#53

Mike, just look for the book Iron Cross, authors first name is Peter, do not recall last name, its about 9/11. Patrick Fitzgerald worked for the Attorney General back then.

Tom Huisenga

#54

Tom - That title and name does not compute at Amazon.Com. I’ve never failed looking up a book there, so some of the data must be incorrect. The closest I could come was “The Iron Cross by Leonard Levenson (Paperback - April 2003)” but I’m pretty sure that’s not it either. Most books with Iron Cross in the title appear to be about Nazi Germany.

#55

The book Tom mentioned is “Triple Cross” by Peter Lance. Subtitle is: “How bin Laden’s Master Spy Penetrated the CIA, the Green Berets, and the FBI–and Why Patrick Fitzgerald Failed to Stop Him.”

It is available from Amazon for ~$20. See:
http://www.amazon.com/Triple-Cross-Penetrated-FBI-Fitzgerald/dp/0060886889

A very interesting take on the failures of our security forces and success of the terrorists. It puts significant blame for these failures on the FBI and Patrick Fitzgerald.

Happy RRing,

Jerry

#56

Shades of George Wallace in the Senate today. Anyone else remember George Wallace or Little Rock and the Federal Troops? No, we are not talking about another rock band.

#57

I see the Republican spin is already trying to roast Obama…if you don’t have facts make insinuations. Obama tried to negotiate with the esteemed Gov from Illinois, no kidding? Criminal activity?..danged unlikely. We have the Gov’s own words saying straight out something to the effect of “All they’ll give me is thanks and this is worth a whole lot more than that”! Apparently expressing interest in your replacement it equal to Watergate in some minds. Blast away when you got something concrete, guy isn’t even in office yet.

#58

Has nuttin to do with Obama. This has to do with Dingy Harry manning the barricades at the Senate Door, keeping out that “tainted” schwartzer from Illinois.

Politics doesn’t get anymore fun than this, watching these clowns shoot themselves in the foot.

#59

Politics doesn’t get anymore fun than this, watching these clowns shoot themselves in the foot.

It is a good year, isn’t it? If they keep this up, they’ll have less time to mess with our lives. They all think they are so important. :wink:

#60

Looks like the going price for a black man from Chicago to buy a Senate seat in Illinois is $15,000, if you play the race card. The price might be considerably higher for anyone else. Larry Flint now needs money to bail out the struggling porn industry. It just doesn’t get any better than this.