What I forgot to mention, and this will cause the Rooster great pain… The Indian statue at Indian Hill on my RR took a direct hit from a branch and was broken off it’s base. Railroad management has promised to repair him and put him back in place watching over the railroad. This also gives management a chance to repair the arm that was severed many years ago. Hopefully repairs can be completed in the Spring. Perhaps he will get lifelike painting too instead of being matte black.
Victor Smith said:
This is going to come out as the the biggest WTH story of the storm, the loss of the SS BountyThe more I read about this the more in disbelief i am that these guys actually decidedly and knowingly set sail into the storm of the century thinking there 40 year old ship, which apparently was always under some kind of repair, could beat this fast moving storm! I’m actually surprised only two died, the Bounty was based on a boat that historically at its fastest could only manage about 12 knots or 15 mph at most! Instead of moving the boat upriver as far as possible to avoid the storm surge, they set a course S trying to reach their homeport of St Petersburg in FL, this put them along the western edge of this beast. Did they think they could outrun it? Man I know nothing about boats and navigation but it doesn’t take a rocket scientist to see they would end up in the very worst part of the storm. Was it just hubris on the part of the captain and crew? Because they all boarded this boat knowing the intended course. Man I just don’t get it.
Vic, ships of that size have a better chance of surviving a storm at sea than they do in port. That’s why the Navy sortied all of their ships that could get underweigh on the East Coast. Here is what I suspect happened, based on the comment that, “We were taking on water and the diesel quit.” (Paraphrased) A sailing ship (even one with an auxiliary diesel) is not built to try to hold position by heading into the wind on aux power. The waves will break over the fo’c’s’le (forecastle, ie the pointy end of the ship for all you lubbers out there), and flood the weather deck, and the hatches are not built to withstand that amount of water. I suspect that they were trying to do just that, they started flooding from water down the hatch, and the pumps were overwhelmed when the aux diesel quit, robbing them of “'Trons.” What sailing vessels are built to do is run with the wind under bare sticks (run down wind without sails, sometimes called a “Doghouse Run,” since the “Dog House” provides all the sail area needed). I suspect that if they had done that, they would have been OK. Also, they were in the best part of the storm for survival. Hurricanes generally travel in a Northerly direction, and the winds are counter clockwise in the Northern Hemisphere. The worst part is the “North East Quadrant”, based on the storm’s course being labeled “North.” The best part is the South West Quadrant, where they were. It has to do with Pressures and the speed of the storm over the ground being added to the wind speed, increasing the relative wind in the North East Quadrant, and the storms speed over the ground being subtracted from actual wind speed giving a lesser relative wind speed in the South West Quadrant. Handled properly, I think that Bounty could have survived the storm. It will be interesting to see what comes out in the Inquiry.
So, all you need now is a leaf blower! How ironic! :lol: 
Ken Brunt said:
The worst seems to be over. The GR is none the worse for wear. Had a few building get toppled and the arbor blew over, but the power stayed on through the whole thing and it seems to be just a matter of drying out. Hesperus survived…(http://rgsgardenrailroad.com/2012/Oct_2012.jpg)
Mancos survived…somewhat…
(http://rgsgardenrailroad.com/2012/Oct_2012a.jpg)
Delores had the usual…the coal tipple blew over…
(http://rgsgardenrailroad.com/2012/Oct_2012b.jpg)
The arbor…
(http://rgsgardenrailroad.com/2012/Oct_2012c.jpg)
Kept an eye on all this during the storm, but nothing looked to be in any danger.
Steve Featherkile said:and maybe a little sun to dry it all out............;)
[b]So, all you need now is a leaf blower! How ironic! :lol: :D :P[/b]
Victor Smith said:
Wow Bob that’s pretty bad. I think this image gives a good idea how bad the flooding is in NYC, that’s water pouring into a subway station thru the elevator shaft.
This is going to come out as the the biggest WTH story of the storm, the loss of the SS Bounty [url]
[/url] The more I read about this the more in disbelief i am that these guys actually decidedly and knowingly set sail into the storm of the century thinking there 50 year old ship, which apparently was always under some kind of repair, could beat this fast moving storm! I’m actually surprised only two died, the Bounty was based on a boat that historically at its fastest could only manage about 12 knots or 15 mph at most! Instead of moving the boat upriver as far as possible to avoid the storm surge, they set a course S trying to reach their homeport of St Petersburg in FL, this put them along the western edge of this beast. Did they think they could outrun it? Man I know nothing about boats and navigation but it doesn’t take a rocket scientist to see they would end up in the very worst part of the storm. Was it just hubris on the part of the captain and crew? Because they all boarded this boat knowing the intended course. Man I just don’t get it.
I hear the “safer at sea than in port” but I have not heard of similar vessels destroyed dockside (The Constitution for example). This was no modern naval vessel; it was a cork in the ocean. And rather than go north where she’s been before, they chose to skirt a hurricane. Hubris indeed Victor. Same thing that sends a private pilot up in questionable conditions. Sad for the loss of life…On land or sea.
Dave Marconi said:It seemed that way too near me, except our ground level gusts were pretty severe. I spent about a half hour on the front porch in the height of it when it wasn't raining. The wind noise was like nothing I had ever heard before, but only every once in a while did I get any wind in the face.
Winds seemed to stay high up for the most part with an occasional ground level gust.
A friend has a sister-on-law who lives in New Jersey.
She said that at the height of the wind you could feel the front porch raising off the ground!
Shawn said:Glad to hear you 're still going strong. Keep the family safe. Sounds like you got hit right hard with this one.
We are alive no power could be days or longer before we get it back. Its a mess from the jersey shore to nyc and the higher elevations. I Had 70 mph winds for hours. 12 trains from the transit yard washed onto the nj turnpike. At least 88 houses washed away. 80% of nj with no power. What made this so bad was it covered a hudge area and effected The most populated area of the country. Will keep every posted but internet and cell is off and on .
Edited to add that yes Jon, that’s about what we had, it sounded like a flight of jets overhead constantly.
Dave Marconi said:Shawn said:Glad to hear you 're still going strong. Keep the family safe. Sounds like you got hit right hard with this one.
We are alive no power could be days or longer before we get it back. Its a mess from the jersey shore to nyc and the higher elevations. I Had 70 mph winds for hours. 12 trains from the transit yard washed onto the nj turnpike. At least 88 houses washed away. 80% of nj with no power. What made this so bad was it covered a hudge area and effected The most populated area of the country. Will keep every posted but internet and cell is off and on .Edited to add that yes Jon, that’s about what we had, it sounded like a flight of jets overhead constantly.
No freight trains???
Nope Steve, although I would have preferred that.
Doug Arnold said:
A friend has a sister-on-law who lives in New Jersey.She said that at the height of the wind you could feel the front porch raising off the ground!
Doug, tis a brave man to say your sister in law is heavy enough to hold down a porch. Any special request for the memorial or should we just donate to the railroad of our choice in your name?
Steve Featherkile said:Victor Smith said:
This is going to come out as the the biggest WTH story of the storm, the loss of the SS BountyThe more I read about this the more in disbelief i am that these guys actually decidedly and knowingly set sail into the storm of the century thinking there 40 year old ship, which apparently was always under some kind of repair, could beat this fast moving storm!
I’m actually surprised only two died, the Bounty was based on a boat that historically at its fastest could only manage about 12 knots or 15 mph at most! Instead of moving the boat upriver as far as possible to avoid the storm surge, they set a course S trying to reach their homeport of St Petersburg in FL, this put them along the western edge of this beast. Did they think they could outrun it? Man I know nothing about boats and navigation but it doesn’t take a rocket scientist to see they would end up in the very worst part of the storm. Was it just hubris on the part of the captain and crew? Because they all boarded this boat knowing the intended course. Man I just don’t get it.
Vic, ships of that size have a better chance of surviving a storm at sea than they do in port. That’s why the Navy sortied all of their ships that could get underweigh on the East Coast.Here is what I suspect happened, based on the comment that, “We were taking on water and the diesel quit.” (Paraphrased) A sailing ship (even one with an auxiliary diesel) is not built to try to hold position by heading into the wind on aux power. The waves will break over the fo’c’s’le (forecastle, ie the pointy end of the ship for all you lubbers out there), and flood the weather deck, and the hatches are not built to withstand that amount of water. I suspect that they were trying to do just that, they started flooding from water down the hatch, and the pumps were overwhelmed when the aux diesel quit, robbing them of “'Trons.”
What sailing vessels are built to do is run with the wind under bare sticks (run down wind without sails, sometimes called a “Doghouse Run,” since the “Dog House” provides all the sail area needed). I suspect that if they had done that, they would have been OK.
Also, they were in the best part of the storm for survival. Hurricanes generally travel in a Northerly direction, and the winds are counter clockwise in the Northern Hemisphere. The worst part is the “North East Quadrant”, based on the storm’s course being labeled “North.” The best part is the South West Quadrant, where they were. It has to do with Pressures and the speed of the storm over the ground being added to the wind speed, increasing the relative wind in the North East Quadrant, and the storms speed over the ground being subtracted from actual wind speed giving a lesser relative wind speed in the South West Quadrant.
Handled properly, I think that Bounty could have survived the storm. It will be interesting to see what comes out in the Inquiry.
Steve I’ve heard that “doghouse run’” called “running before the wind”. The late Alan Villiers who was one of the last of the great sea dogs from the days of sail, was captain of the Mayflower II’s maiden voyage to the US back in the 50’s when they got caught in a large storm mid Atlantic, they tried everything to keep control of the ship, nothing worked and they thought they were goners when Villiers recalled what the original sea captains of the era recorded doing, namely they set either the bowsprit sail or the lower foresail on half reef, took in all the other sails, put her stern into the wind, and let her “run before the wind” running like this kept the bow pointed downwind and the boat just rode the waves like a cork and survived the storm.
The thing about the Bounty is that even though she looks seaworthy, she was 50 years old this year. Who knows what condition she was in prior to setting sail. I read someone commenting online that claimed they knew the ship and that it wasn’t necessarily always in the best of conditions. So Yes, the Inquiry will be very interesting, luckily most all of the crew survived and will be able to provide testimony.
Doug Arnold said:
A friend has a sister-on-law who lives in New Jersey.She said that at the height of the wind you could feel the front porch raising off the ground!
Remembering the days of 90 mph winds we got last year I can only shudder to think the results of adding several inches of rain to all that.
We had sustained 60 mph winds with gusts up to 90 mph two weeks ago for 2 days straight. Although we didnt have to deal with storm surge or rain. it was a dry wind.
In Boston they always say to take the t!!!
They Shut the whole system down @ 2pm!
I’m sure there were a couple peeved passengers that didn’t get the word!!!
When the sun comes out and we rake the leaves we should be done, 90% of leaves are down!
Lost some trees in the woods, but railroad is O.K. just under 6" on leaves!!!
To much even for thing 1 and thing 2!!
Sean
When I land sailed on the dry lakes and it got real windy you could take the sail down and sail without a sail! The main problem was you could only sail downwind! Hopefully someone would tow you back! It could be a long walk.
We got rain…
Victor Smith said:
Steve I've heard that "doghouse run'" called "running before the wind". The late Alan Villiers who was one of the last of the great sea dogs from the days of sail, was captain of the Mayflower II's maiden voyage to the US back in the 50's when they got caught in a large storm mid Atlantic, they tried everything to keep control of the ship, nothing worked and they thought they were goners when Villiers recalled what the original sea captains of the era recorded doing, namely they set either the bowsprit sail or the lower foresail on half reef, took in all the other sails, put her stern into the wind, and let her "run before the wind" running like this kept the bow pointed downwind and the boat just rode the waves like a cork and survived the storm.The thing about the Bounty is that even though she looks seaworthy, she was 50 years old this year. Who knows what condition she was in prior to setting sail. I read someone commenting online that claimed they knew the ship and that it wasn’t necessarily always in the best of conditions. So Yes, the Inquiry will be very interesting, luckily most all of the crew survived and will be able to provide testimony.
Vic, we’re getting pretty far afield here, but what the heck…
Running before the wind simply means sailing directly down wind, or perhaps within a point or two of directly down wind (the classic point is 11 and 1/4 degrees). It is never really safe to run directly down wind, because if the wind shifted just a tiny bit, that would jibe all of the fore and aft sails, potentially causing capsize.
I agree that a Dog House Run would necessarily include a storm jib to keep the ship’s head down wind.
The “lower foresail” is usually called the Fore Course. I just thought that you’d want to know…
The “Dog House” is the name given to the small house like structure very often found on Tall Ships on the “Poop Deck,” usually found aft on the Main Deck, though it could be part of the After Castle in earlier ships. The Dog House was usually necessary to give the Captain’s Stateroom enough headroom so the Captain had a place to stand fully erect in his quarters, a privilege not given to others of the crew. Sometime there was a glass sun roof to let in natural light. It also allowed the Captain to speak directly to the Officer of the Deck without the Captain needing to leave his quarters.
From the Bounty web page, it sounds like she just recently completed restoration. One would think that she would be in pretty good shape, especially as she had been in Ordinary for refit.
In any case, it is a sad day for those of us who love Tall Ships.
Yes Steve it is a sad day for tall sail. Back to storm coverage lest we be labeled Thread Pirates.
Jon Radder said:This irresponsibility troubles me Jon ! Why was the Indian not brought inside! ...:)...
What I forgot to mention, and this will cause the Rooster great pain... The Indian statue at Indian Hill on my RR took a direct hit from a branch and was broken off it's base. Railroad management has promised to repair him and put him back in place watching over the railroad. This also gives management a chance to repair the arm that was severed many years ago. Hopefully repairs can be completed in the Spring. Perhaps he will get lifelike painting too instead of being matte black.
EDIT …to state… YOU KNEW THE STORM WAS COMING!