Large Scale Central

Health care

General Discussion
#1
Warren Mumpower said:
Health care in America is another sore subject. There isn't any...except for the poor. Those in the lower working classes, should they get sick, either have to hope their employer provided them with decent coverage or go without. Here you have to sell your house, car and family to get free healthcare. You have to be either destitute or wealthy enough to afford good insurance. Otherwise you are screwed. Here good insurance costs more than what a lot of families make in a month. Another really sore spot is that the unemployed/unemployable poor live better with welfare benefits than does the lower class working families.
Warren, you posted this on another thread, and we did not address it. I am interested in following it up with you and whoever else has an opinion on the subject.

You and I are about the same vintage, and my guess is we are both neither rich nor destitute. If what you say is true, health care has to be a worry for you.

How should America go about dealing with this issue?

#2

The bottom line is that the US has no national health care. It’s all in the hands of the insurance companies which run neck in neck with the petroleum companies in greed. There are essentially 3 patchwork healthcare programs outside of insurance that cover some people, the Veterans Administration, Medicare (the elderly) and medicaid (for the destitute). None of these offer quality medical services because they are over worked, understaffed, and under funded. I get my services from the Veterans Administration (VA). And that’s only by a fluke in the law. That law states that the emergency room will not turn away any veteran whether or not he’s been accepted for services at a VA hospital and will continue treating him until cured. I have hypertension and diabetes both of which are considered incurable. Were I not a veteran I would have been screwed.

#3

Warren like the email i sent you I am NOT a veteran, So i guess i’m in the SCREWED! catagory huh? here in West Ne. Good for you Bad for me!

#4
Warren Mumpower said:
The bottom line is that the US has no national health care. It's all in the hands of the insurance companies which run neck in neck with the petroleum companies in greed. There are essentially 3 patchwork healthcare programs outside of insurance that cover some people, the Veterans Administration, Medicare (the elderly) and medicaid (for the destitute). None of these offer quality medical services because they are over worked, understaffed, and under funded. I get my services from the Veterans Administration (VA). And that's only by a fluke in the law. That law states that the emergency room will not turn away any veteran whether or not he's been accepted for services at a VA hospital and will continue treating him until cured. I have hypertension and diabetes both of which are considered incurable. Were I not a veteran I would have been screwed.
Do you think the US should: 1) stay "as is" with the three-tiered system you describe, and just work to improve it, or 2) scrap the existing system and build something new (might be national health care), or 3) some combination of the two?

I do know a bit about US health care, but it’s very patchy. For example, I know next to nothing about American VA services. Are you saying you only qualify for emergency room treatment? My brother was seriously wounded in Vietnam, and I know he retains eligibility for some VA services, but I’ve never discussed it with him in any depth.

#5

So far the government hasn’t show me any apptitude for running any program. I sure as hell don’t want them running any health care program.

#6

They do run the military pretty damn good - lol

you guys can take that anyway you want cause that could be serious, or a serious joke

#7

The military runs the military, so thank you for the accolades. Most of the career military are dedicated professionals. Almost without exception, these guys succeed on the outside once they hang up their uniforms.

#8

Ken, I guess that’s why it seems so hopeless. I have to agree. If national health care is run like the VA then we will have a mess for sure. But if it’s run like the insurance companies…and here I’m thinking along the lines of HMO’s the situation is equally sad. By the time you pay for all the exclusions and co-pays one would be bankrupt. The problem with both systems is that some accountant decides your level of medical care, not your doctor. I just fear that between the greed and incompetence there is no hope for our health care problems.

Dave:
1: I wouldn’t call it a 3 tiered system under any circumstance, but a couple piss poor patches on a well moth eaten and tattered rag.

2: There is really nothing to scrap. There is no organization to it. It’s just a patch work of badly managed, inconsistent and underfunded Federal and State programs.

3: There is nothing worthwhile to combine.

As for my treatment at the VA, I had to go to the emergency room for initial treatment and diagnosis. Since my BP was 180/120 and my sugars at 475 it didn’t take long to diagnose. :confused: Since this was to be long term treatment, I was assigned to a regular treatment team. Had the problem been short term, I would have been treated by the emergency room and released. If treatment for another ailment had required professional treatment it would have been a return to the emergency room.

#9

Part of the problem with the VA is that it isn’t run by the military…:frowning: It’s run by incompetent government employees (administration) that can’t get a job elsewhere. My doctor is great but she has to fight the administration and the “system” the whole time. I have high regards for the VA doctors, nurses and technicians. It’s the bureaucratic administration that is the problem. And their problem is they dance to the tune of the politicians and accountants.

#10
Warren Mumpower said:
Since this was to be long term treatment, I was assigned to a regular treatment team. Had the problem been short term, I would have been treated by the emergency room and released. If treatment for another ailment had required professional treatment it would have been a return to the emergency room.
It sounds like you'll be seeing the same group of medical professionals, at the same VA hospital, over (we hope) a long period of time. That means you'll probably get better health care not only because they're skilled at what they do, but also because they'll be aware of your particular circumstances.

Did I understand you correctly? Is this the way it is?

#11

Only partly. The bean counters (accountants) can put a stumbling block in the way of treatment and override what the doctor wants to do. And the system is so screwed up that when the doctor wants to see me again in 3 months, it takes 5 to get back in. I would say that my treatment does NOT meet a minimum standard.

#12
Warren Mumpower said:
Only partly. The bean counters (accountants) can put a stumbling block in the way of treatment and override what the doctor wants to do. And the system is so screwed up that when the doctor wants to see me again in 3 months, it takes 5 to get back in. I would say that my treatment does NOT meet a minimum standard.
I was hoping there would be a greater degree of trust between medical professionals and financial managers in the VA hospitals than pertains outside the VA system. Your comments suggest otherwise.

Much of the work I did in my last stint in the US involved analysis of medical data. As a result, I can guarantee some US doctors are as crooked as a dog’s hind leg.

The result is that all doctors are tainted by the behaviour of a tiny minority. Insurance companies care about fraud, because it costs them big-time. However, your comments suggest the pendulum has swung too far - financial concerns now outweigh medical factors.

If a fix to give greater emphasis to the opinions of doctors is possible anywhere, I would have thought it would be in the VA system. Are any of the Presidential hopefuls making noises about changing the emphasis in the VA system?

#13

You gotta be kidding. They don’t even acknowledge the VA exists. The only time any politician gives a hoot about Vets is when the media discovers they are getting screwed. Suddenly “we have to take care of our Vets”…until the media turns their back. The only remote hope for Vets would come from McCain…but he’s said little. As for the other 2 candidates…well, there’s more illegal immigrants that need social services than Vets…so we just go pound sand. Forget we put our lives on the line so their sorry ass could run for office.

#14
Warren Mumpower said:
You gotta be kidding. They don't even acknowledge the VA exists. The only time any politician gives a hoot about Vets is when the media discovers they are getting screwed. Suddenly "we have to take care of our Vets"...until the media turns their back. The only remote hope for Vets would come from McCain...but he's said little. As for the other 2 candidates...well, there's more illegal immigrants that need social services than Vets...so we just go pound sand. Forget we put our lives on the line so their sorry ass could run for office.
Shook my head at the media thing. Sounds like the way Aussie vets are treated.

Looks like the only chance for a better deal lies with McCain. Makes sense, given his experiences as a POW. What is the “little” you are hearing about this issue from him?

#15

Nothing with substance.

#16
Warren Mumpower said:
Nothing with substance.
A while back, I was chatting with an SAS trooper (Australian Special Forces) at a party. Although I'd met him before, we'd never talked seriously.

I mentioned the problems a friend of mine who’d been badly wounded in Vietnam had had qualifying for TPA (Total and Permanent Disability), which in Australia is bottom-line for a government pension. It wasn’t like my mate’s problem wasn’t visible; he’d had a chunk of his jaw blown away.

The SAS bloke’s reaction was that there were too many ex-servicemen qualifying for pensions who didn’t deserve them. In my friend’s case, he agreed a pension was fair enough. However, he didn’t feel that merely serving in the military entitled anyone to anything.

What’s your reaction to his comment?

#17

I don’t think we have that problem here…as far as the wrong Vets getting pension that don’t deserve it…though that does exist in the civilian world. And yes, I think the guy deserved something for his injury. As for the concept that just because he’s a Vet doesn’t mean he’s entitled to anything, I feel quite the opposite. If you have not served your country you don’t deserve anything. This could be military or some form of civil corps…male and female. I don’t even think a person should be allowed to vote until he/she has served.

#18

Thanks, Warren. I now have a better grasp of how VA works, and I agree with your concept of public service.

Let’s sign off on this now.

#19

I’ll take it a step further, if’n y’all don’t mind. I think that someone should be a veteren of some sort of public service before (s)he can vote or run for office. Put another way, being a Vet should be the basic requirement for full citizenship.

#20

I agree with that 100%. And that includes immigrants.