I am not the one to start rumors, but:
"apparent demise of Hartford Products "
from:
http://120pointme.blogspot.com/
If this is true, I wish HP would announce something, instead of letting these rumors fly.
A lot of smaller companies (relied) on HP for detailing supplies for their products as well as the modeler.
Bob.
You apparrently sell HP here on LSC. Surely you have it from the source.
Rumor or not?
jb
Communication with Hartford dried up several months ago and Bob took down all his listings of product to keep his users happy.
This does not surprise me in the least. I seriously looked at buying the business from Bob Hartford about 4 years years ago, but decided against it after doing the due diligence. I don’t know what the final deal was, but when I looked it was a huge gamble.
I havent received an email from HP for several months, despite numerous inquiries, and even orders. I had to refund money on several (read: Hundreds of dollars of) orders that sat unacknowledged for months.
Too bad, I had a sweet deal cut with them, offering a neat discount. Seemed like when Jeanie left, things collapsed.
Jon Radder said:
Communication with Hartford dried up several months ago and Bob took down all his listings of product to keep his users happy.This does not surprise me in the least. I seriously looked at buying the business from Bob Hartford about 4 years years ago, but decided against it after doing the due diligence. I don’t know what the final deal was, but when I looked it was a huge gamble.
Sounds like a perfect opportunity for our recent retirees. 
The amount wanted for the molds and company was pretty high, considering what you were getting. There were several LS companies on the block a few years ago, and Im really glad I didnt bite on any of them.
Bob McCown said:Me too. The one who probably came out smelling like a rose in all of this is Bob Hartford.
The amount wanted for the molds and company was pretty high, considering what you were getting. There were several LS companies on the block a few years ago, and Im really glad I didnt bite on any of them.
I seriously considered getting ahold of both DelAire, and Sunset Valley, when they were selling off their dies and stock. But, damn, for what you got, it was mostly name recognition and some bits and bobs, and the right to manufacture their designs.
From 1 to 20.me…
This is to inform all of our customers that our white metal castings supplier will no longer be able to supply us with the needed castings for our Carter Bro’s Passenger car line.While we are seeking out alternate suppliers, there are some items that no other company or individual produces. Because of this, Bronson-Tate must now create our own casting masters, which other parties will use to produce the needed parts.
This will serve as official notice that all production of the Carter Bro’s Passenger cars, including CC Baggage Car #1 and SPC Caboose #47 will cease untill the needed castings are produced.
Both Bronson-Tate and our retailers do have a limited number of the kits remaining. These will be available untill the stock is depleted.
Additionally, due to the time involved in creating the masters, we regret to inform you that all R&D on existing projects (i.e. Cumbres Depot, Cumbres Section House, D&RG Class III freight cars…) must temporally be suspended so that our attention can be focused on creating the masters.
We expect it to take approximately 5 to 7 months to complete the masters and bring the effected kits back on line.
The Live Steam cab’s, Master Class kits, Track Side series and the structures that were not previously mentioned, are not effected by this notice. They are all still in production and are available.
I recall when Llagas was for sale.
I asked.
Name recognition was it, and it wasn’t cheap.
DelAire had effectively killed off the business, and when EZAir showed up, there is no market for that line.
Now, everybody and his cousin will be buying casting equipment, to build something you will have to contact a half-dozen suppliers where as before you contacted one.
Going to have to see how this shakes out.
Maybe some of those outfits closing down for a spell will evaluate the costings of doing their own, and not come back.
We wait.
Makes me thinks to turn in a huge order to Ozarks for any future projects, before we lose them, too.
I think it is a sign of the times…
I know a dude who, once the LGB rumor hit, bought up lots and lots of track and turnouts for future projects…Oh, wait, that was me!
Curmudgeon said:Not a bad thing. Having a fall-back supplier is always good business, and perhaps if the business is spread around to multiple parties, it can be handled much more efficiently; not loading any one manufacturer down with unmeetable requests. We've still got Ozark and Trackside to fill the voids until others can get things up and running.
Now, everybody and his cousin will be buying casting equipment, to build something you will have to contact a half-dozen suppliers where as before you contacted one.
Curmudgeon said:If I'm a manufacturer, I'm not looking at the prospect of doing things myself, I'm looking for a new supplier. Hartford hardly had a corner on that market. Assuming that the masters are mine, I get them back and send them to the new production house and pick up where I left off. If I have to drive to wherever to pick them up personally, then so be it. So it takes a few months to make the switch. Large scale is hardly the realm of the "immediately if not sooner" delivery schedule.
Maybe some of those outfits closing down for a spell will evaluate the costings of doing their own, and not come back.
Curmudgeon said:Yes, we do, but in the mean time, we look to existing alternatives. Again, Ozark and Trackside's line mirror many of Hartford's parts, and they're not the only suppliers. You want trucks? Accucraft sells trucks now that you don't have to assemble yourself.
We wait.
It’s not a “sign of the times” or anything like that. It’s one person who–for whatever reason–has found himself behind the eight ball. The impact is minimal.
Later,
K
Folks found Hartford had the castings that were correct and that they needed to stay in business.
That is where this is going, Kevin.
Now, to find the “bits”, instead of the Hartford catalog, you’re going to need a bunch of them.
And, if the parts are being made for in-house use, what’s the guarantee said parts will be available separately?
Can you say Bachmann?
Curmudgeon said:I can see your point, but if you're a cottage industry relying on another cottage industry as a supplier, you know you have an inherent weak link in your production. This isn't the first time we've seen this, and it won't be the last. Disappointing to the consumer? Absolutely, but also preventable from a business standpoint by having a "plan B."
Folks found Hartford had the castings that were correct and that they needed to stay in business.
Curmudgeon said:There is none, but anyone who's studied this hobby--especially the 1:20 niche--knows the value of parts as parts. Bob Hartford didn't sell his parts separately at first, but they soon became as important--if not moreso---than his kits. Most players in the game (even Bachman!) have learned that parts sell. You don't get guarantees unless you pick up the reins yourself. Failing that, rest easy knowing that one would have to be fundamentally ignorant of the market to miss the desire for parts.
And, if the parts are being made for in-house use, what's the guarantee said parts will be available separately? Can you say Bachmann?
Later,
K
Dad always said you have to be very careful when you buy “Blue Sky”… It can get cloudy very quick!!
IRONY???
As I checked the update for this thread, HARTFORD PRODUCTS was the top banner sponsor!
Kevin Strong said:
Look to existing alternatives. You want trucks? Accucraft sells trucks now that you don't have to assemble yourself.Later,
K
Hopefully someone else will buy them if they truly are gone (they are not returning my calls on my order they took in June) eventually. Look at LaBelle and how many owners they have had in about five decades…
Quote:EBT? Tweetsie? Waynesburg & Washington? White Pass? The list goes on and on. The fact is that there are far more railroads whose modelers are forced to some level of compromise because we have yet to have accurate models of our favorite prototypes produced. I'm not saying the loss of formerly available items isn't bad, but from my perspective, it's hardly a cause for sympathy. "Welcome to the club," is more like it.
... Swing motion, South Park, WSL? Nope....that is the problem, if you like modern Colorado NG, you are OK......
I don’t think we’ve seen the end of Hartford, or at least their products. Like LGB, the molds and masters are too valuable to collect dust. Either the current owners will get back on their feet, or the assets will be sold to someone who will try their hand.
Later,
K
Whatever the case, the current situation is unfortunate, at least from a consumer point of view. I hope that the owners will soon either turn things around, or find a buyer(s) who will.
Ozark is doing fine. In fact, Dave is running overtime trying to keep up. I’ve been making patterns for several things that Hartford fans might find interesting. I redesigned the passenger car trucks from something that took a machinist and 100 hours to build, to something that can be done in 1/2 hour by the average modeler. Don’t know the price, but should be much cheaper. They are much stronger, yet we have maintained almost the same level of detail. Also did glad hands that eliminated the too thin parts that molded badly, to something much more practical. The clamps also now fit the hose. Last, have done patterns for the K brake system that are more detailed that Hartford, yet re strong and simple enough for reliable use.
It is Ozark’s goal to provide kits from beginner to advanced and in the three most popular scales.
John
Kevin Strong said:
EBT? Tweetsie? Waynesburg & Washington? White Pass? The list goes on and on.Later,
K
Speaking of, the four wheel Billmeyer (edit, gondola) cars, according to the Hartford site, found a buyer here in TN, never could figure out who it was…
Quote:Exactly my point. Those of us who model these non-commercially-supported railroads don't really feel the impact to the same extent that someone modeling West Side Lumber or such would. We'll still grab parts and pieces from whomever we can to build our models, we just won't have Hartford's "also-not-quite-accurate-for-what-we-need" products to choose from. For those whom the kits and parts were specifically accurate, it's a definitely a bummer to lose such a good source. I'm still waiting for accurate products to lament losing.
... Those were were not offered by Hartford...
Later,
K