How many people have to die before you f’n idiots get it??? Easy access to hand guns lead to far more deaths than possible lives saved. What can be your arguement? Do you bring your hand gun into church with you Steve??? Are you going to start a shoot out in church???
-Brian
Brian,
link to site showing murders committed with firearms throughout the world.
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_mur_wit_fir-crime-murders-with-firearms
Some statistics from the site, in each case showing the percentage of all types of homicides committed when using a firearm.
Thailand 79.5
South Africa 59.2
Colombia 45.2
United States 39.5
Mexico 20.6
Australia 16.3
Chile 10.3
Statistics from 1993 - Quote: “In 1993, the FBI counted 24,526 murders (13,980 by handguns), yet only 251 of these were justifiable homicides by civilians using handguns. This is only one percent of all murders! However, “justifiable homicide” is a narrowly-defined legal term, meaning the killing of an assailant in self-defense, and as a last resort. For example, shooting someone for stealing your car is not considered justifiable homicide (unless your life is in danger).”
Recent statistics (2005) taken from link provided above, has 16,205 persons murdered in the United States, with 9369 using firearms (no distinction between type of firearm used).
Brian Donovan said:
How many people have to die before you f'n idiots get it??? Easy access to hand guns lead to far more deaths than possible lives saved. What can be your arguement? Do you bring your hand gun into church with you Steve??? Are you going to start a shoot out in church???-Brian
Tim Brien said:
Brian, link to site showing murders committed with firearms throughout the world.http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_mur_wit_fir-crime-murders-with-firearms
Some statistics from the site, in each case showing the percentage of all types of homicides committed when using a firearm.
Thailand 79.5
South Africa 59.2
Colombia 45.2
United States 39.5
Mexico 20.6
Australia 16.3
Chile 10.3Statistics from 1993 - Quote: "In 1993, the FBI counted 24,526 murders (13,980 by handguns), yet only 251 of these were justifiable homicides by civilians using handguns.
Brian…I like it better when we talk fishing =)
Ralph
No one has been shot in my church since it was started. And I know of at least 6 other men that carry handguns to church.
Maybe it is good that you Brian do not carry a handgun since you attribute all sorts of irresponsible behavior to those of us that do, you’d likely not be responsible with a loaded gun.
Now lets hear you bleat.
“A woman laying in an alley, strangled with her pantyhose and raped is not morally superior to one standing over her intended attacker with a smoking, empty gun.” anonymous
Just had an incident in Illinois. Some say they thought it was a skit at first.
Tom Ruby said:Read about that. The pastor was known for pulling stunts, only this wasn't a stunt. Sad that nuts like the shooter, are out there.
Just had an incident in Illinois. Some say they thought it was a skit at first.
The shooter in Colorado Springs last year (?) wasn’t so lucky. Taken out by a armed citizen, a lady in the church.
Notice the homicide rate drops after the surge of introduction of “Right To Carry” legislation in the mid 1980’s.
http://www.geocities.com/dtmcbride/reference/murders_us_2003.html
After the Virginia tech massacre, where that guy went nuts and killed 20 some people, there were a lot of arguments from the NRA that if every student had a gun, it never would have happened. I had a conversation on this with a relative of mine who enlisted in the Marines at 17, served in Korea and twice in Vietnam, and was once second in command at Parris Island. He said that a huge part of what the marines do with 18 year old recruits is fire discipline–making them take the weapon seriously, train them in how and when to use it. It’s in some ways the most important thing they learn in basic and it keeps up once they are on duty. And they STILL shoot each other–sometimes screwing around, sometimes accidentally in the heat of action. He argued that the idea of every student having a gun was plain nuts. You’d have people shooting themselves and each other all the time; or they would shoot and miss and kill someone else.
The fact that some people feel the need to carry a gun all the time seems, frankly, both creepy and sad to me. It suggests that they live in a constant state of paranoia and view their fellow citizens–myself included–with fear and suspicion. Some people feel that way–the world is scary and they need protection. They don’t feel complete without the gun. I’ve managed to get to nearly half a century without carrying a gun around, living in some of our most dangerous cities. The response is that I’m either lucky or naive or both. Well I don’t agree and neither do the VAST majority of Americans who don’t feel the need to carry a gun around all the time.
Yep, cars kill more people. But almost never deliberately
mike omalley said:
After the Virginia tech massacre, where that guy went nuts and killed 20 some people, there were a lot of arguments from the NRA that if every student had a gun, it never would have happened. I had a conversation on this with a relative of mine who enlisted in the Marines at 17, served in Korea and twice in Vietnam, and was once second in command at Parris Island. He said that a huge part of what the marines do with 18 year old recruits is fire discipline--making them take the weapon seriously, train them in how and when to use it. It's in some ways the most important thing they learn in basic and it keeps up once they are on duty. And they STILL shoot each other--sometimes screwing around, sometimes accidentally in the heat of action. He argued that the idea of every student having a gun was plain nuts. You'd have people shooting themselves and each other all the time; or they would shoot and miss and kill someone else.The fact that some people feel the need to carry a gun all the time seems, frankly, both creepy and sad to me. It suggests that they live in a constant state of paranoia and view their fellow citizens–myself included–with fear and suspicion. Some people feel that way–the world is scary and they need protection. They don’t feel complete without the gun. I’ve managed to get to nearly half a century without carrying a gun around, living in some of our most dangerous cities. The response is that I’m either lucky or naive or both. Well I don’t agree and neither do the VAST majority of Americans who don’t feel the need to carry a gun around all the time.
Yep, cars kill more people. But almost never deliberately
Tom Ruby said:Very sad, indeed. Someone will use this for political fodder. The man's gun jammed, he continued with a knife. If you are wacked and hell bent on killing.......you find a way.
Just had an incident in Illinois. Some say they thought it was a skit at first.
Alcohol kills more people…but am I an idiot for not trying to take your alcohol away?
Speaking of wacked…the man in Canada who decapitated a bus passenger and was eating the flesh, was found insane by the Canadian courts. He will be released when the Doctors think he is cured. He didn’t use a gun either.
Ralph
David Hill said:You didn't actually read the post, did you?
A lot of veterans are taking advantage of their "tuition entitlements" to return to higher education. Maybe we could allow them to carry a handgun on campus?
Ralph,
the figures quoted are what I found when doing a quick search. 1993 figures were the only found that broke down firearm usage and equated it to type of crime committed, such as self defence claims. Many purport to carry handguns as self protection and yet when one looks at the FBI statistics from 1993, only one percent of murders by firearms are in acting in self defence. Looked at another way, 99% of murders committed with a firearm were as acts of offense.
Guns are not always the weapon of choice, as evidenced by the records shown for Chile. We know that Chile has an unenviable human rights record and yet only 10% of murders committed are with firearms. Look to Thailand with its 79% record. Murders committed in the U.S. have dropped since 1993 to 2005 (the reason I showed the statistics from 1993), but the percentage rate of murders using handguns has only dropped from 50% to 39%. Look to the link provided and see how unenviable your own country's statistics are in relation to well know 'terrorist' Muslim countries and evil communist regimes in South America and the Caribbean.Ralph Berg said:Ralph, this is a specious argument. I could point a bottle of whiskey at someone but I could not shoot him with it. I could tie him down and force him to drink it and therebye cause him to die of alcohol poisoning, but in the time it took to do that, assuming I could even do it, bow much damage could a gun do? People drink themselves to death or get drunk and crash, but it's not deliberate.
Alcohol kills more people...........but am I an idiot for not trying to take your alcohol away? Speaking of wacked..........the man in Canada who decapitated a bus passenger and was eating the flesh, was found insane by the Canadian courts. He will be released when the Doctors think he is cured. He didn't use a gun either. Ralph
Virtually anything can be a weapon, that’s true, but there is no more efficient weapon than a gun, at least for the average person. So it seems perfectly reasonable to me that it would be subject to different laws than a knife
mike omalley said:Ralph Berg said:Ralph, this is a specious argument. I could point a bottle of whiskey at someone but I could not shoot him with it. I could tie him down and force him to drink it and therebye cause him to die of alcohol poisoning, but in the time it took to do that, assuming I could even do it, bow much damage could a gun do? People drink themselves to death or get drunk and crash, but it's not deliberate.
Alcohol kills more people...........but am I an idiot for not trying to take your alcohol away? Speaking of wacked..........the man in Canada who decapitated a bus passenger and was eating the flesh, was found insane by the Canadian courts. He will be released when the Doctors think he is cured. He didn't use a gun either. RalphVirtually anything can be a weapon, that’s true, but there is no more efficient weapon than a gun, at least for the average person. So it seems perfectly reasonable to me that it would be subject to different laws than a knife
mike omalley said:Yes I did.David Hill said:You didn't actually read the post, did you?
A lot of veterans are taking advantage of their "tuition entitlements" to return to higher education. Maybe we could allow them to carry a handgun on campus?
mike omalley said:Ralph Berg said:Ralph, this is a specious argument. I could point a bottle of whiskey at someone but I could not shoot him with it. I could tie him down and force him to drink it and therebye cause him to die of alcohol poisoning, but in the time it took to do that, assuming I could even do it, bow much damage could a gun do? People drink themselves to death or get drunk and crash, but it's not deliberate.
Alcohol kills more people...........but am I an idiot for not trying to take your alcohol away? Speaking of wacked..........the man in Canada who decapitated a bus passenger and was eating the flesh, was found insane by the Canadian courts. He will be released when the Doctors think he is cured. He didn't use a gun either. RalphVirtually anything can be a weapon, that’s true, but there is no more efficient weapon than a gun, at least for the average person. So it seems perfectly reasonable to me that it would be subject to different laws than a knife
Another paranoid psychopath, former Marine
Plantation, FL.-- Last week police were called to investigate an attempted armed
robbery:
The 71-year-old retired Marine who opened fire on two robbers at a
Plantation, FL, Subway shop late Wednesday, killing one and critically
wounding the other, is described as John Lovell, a former helicopter
pilot for two presidents. He doesn’t drink, he doesn’t smoke, and he
works out everyday. Mr. Lovell was a man of action Wednesday night.
According to Plantation police, two masked gunmen came into the
Subway at 1949 N. Pine Rd. Just after 11 p.m. There was a lone diner, Mr.
Lovell, who was finishing his meal… After robbing the cashier, the two
men attempted to shove Mr. Lovell into a bathroom and rob him as well.
They got his money, but then Mr. Lovell pulled his handgun and opened
fire. He shot one of the thieves in the head and chest and the other in
the head.
When police arrived, they found one of the men in the shop, K-9
units found the other in the bushes of a nearby business… They also
found cash strewn around the front of the sandwich shop according to
Detective Robert Rettig of the Plantation Police Department.
Both men were taken to the Broward General Medical Center , where
one, Donicio Arrindell, 22, of North Lauderdale died. The other,
21-year-old Frederick Gadson of Fort20Lauderdale is in critical but stable
condition
A longtime friend of Lovell was not surprised to hear what
happened. The friend said, ‘‘He’d give you the shirt off his back, but
he’d be mad as hell if someone tried to take the shirt off your back.’’
Mr. Lovell was a pilot in the Marine Corps, flying former Presidents John
F. Kennedy and Lyndon B. Johnson. He later worked as a pilot for Pan Am
and Delta.
He is not expected to be charged authorities said. ‘‘He was in
fear for his life,’’ Detective Rettig said, “These criminals ought to
realize that most men in their 70’s have military backgrounds and aren’t
intimidated by idiots.”
Something tells me this old Marine wasn’t ‘in fear for his life’,
even though his life was definitely at risk. The only thing he could be
charged with is participating in an unfair fight. One 71 - year young
Marine against two punks. Two head shots and one center body mass shot -
outstanding shooting! That’ll teach them not to get between a Marine and
his meal.
Florida law allows eligible citizens to carry a concealed weapon.
Every state should.
You mean you carry a gun because you’re NOT worried about your safety?
Now that would be inane–and ridiculous
mike omalley said:
You mean you carry a gun because you're NOT worried about your safety?Now that would be inane–and ridiculous