Large Scale Central

Hand guns in church? Endorsed by the NRA!

General Discussion
#21

Your story about the Marine proves my point about you being scared. All your fantasies come true.

And as I originally posted, the Marines are trained in fire discipline and most people are not. My original post was about the idea that the best defense against crazed gunmen was everyone carrying a gun. I quoted a retired marine saying he though that was a dumb idea. Your story does nothing to disprove that.

#22
David Hill said:
mike omalley said:
You mean you carry a gun because you're NOT worried about your safety?

Now that would be inane–and ridiculous


I’m not worried BECAUSE I carry a handgun, and have been trained how to use it.

As I said

#23
Brian Donovan said:
How many people have to die before you f'n idiots get it??? Easy access to hand guns lead to far more deaths than possible lives saved. What can be your arguement? Do you bring your hand gun into church with you Steve??? Are you going to start a shoot out in church???

-Brian


So, Brian, Steve Who?

I ain’t no f’n idiot! Just an idiot, ask my wife. No, you better not. She reserves that term for herself. She uses a cast iron fryin’ pan on people who ask inane questions.

But, since you ask, no, I do not bring my hand gun (if I owned one, but that’s another story… :smiley: ) to church. I don’t need to, the 6 cops who worship there, do bring theirs. I bring a different tool.

Am I going to start a shootout in church? No. But I might end one.

Now, if any of those f’n idiots had brought their guns to church, it is unlikely that the shooter would have gotten off that last kill shot.

Have a nice day, Brian.

#24
mike omalley said:
Your story about the Marine proves my point about you being scared. All your fantasies come true.

And as I originally posted, the Marines are trained in fire discipline and most people are not. My original post was about the idea that the best defense against crazed gunmen was everyone carrying a gun. I quoted a retired marine saying he though that was a dumb idea. Your story does nothing to disprove that.


Everyone carrying a gun is not a good idea. Not everyone can.
Here in NC, I have to take a training class, as well as have the Sheriff sign the application for the concealed weapons permit.
Ralph

#25

Following is taken from a 1997 Canadian Department of Justice study into gun ownership, comparing gunowners in both Canada and the United States. For those individuals who want more recent studies or statistics, then search for them yourself.

Quote: "There are many similarities when it comes to the profile of gun owners. In both countries, owners:

  • usually are males;
  • usually have less than a university education;
  • most often are blue collar workers or farmers;
  • are likely to have middle class standing; and,
  • most often reside in a small community. "

From another study from 1998, 48% of homes in the southern United States have at least one gun in the home, as oposed to only 26% in the north-eastern United States. Over one third of American gun owners, when requesting a handgun permit, cited ‘self-defence’ as the reason. In Australia, self defence is not a valid reason to own a handgun as is the case in Canada, where handgun ownership has been severely curtailed since 1977.

Similar studies in Canada show gun ownership percentage is dependent on the locality of the gun owner. In the Yukon region, ownership is in the region of 80%, while in Ontario the percentage is only 15%.

#26

So is it okay that I carry a gun since I am #1 male, #2 have no college degree, #3 a home construction worker, #4 middle class and #5 live in a small rural community? :wink:

#27
Tim Brien said:
Following is taken from a 1997 Canadian Department of Justice study into gun ownership, comparing gunowners in both Canada and the United States. For those individuals who want more recent studies or statistics, then search for them yourself.

Quote: "There are many similarities when it comes to the profile of gun owners. In both countries, owners:

  • usually are males;
  • usually have less than a university education;
  • most often are blue collar workers or farmers;
  • are likely to have middle class standing; and,
  • most often reside in a small community. "

From another study from 1998, 48% of homes in the southern United States have at least one gun in the home, as oposed to only 26% in the north-eastern United States. Over one third of American gun owners, when requesting a handgun permit, cited ‘self-defence’ as the reason. In Australia, self defence is not a valid reason to own a handgun as is the case in Canada, where handgun ownership has been severely curtailed since 1977.

Similar studies in Canada show gun ownership percentage is dependent on the locality of the gun owner. In the Yukon region, ownership is in the region of 80%, while in Ontario the percentage is only 15%.


Why not show us the crime statistics in the southern United States compared to the northeastern United States ?
I am blue collar, middle class, and reside in a small community.
I have been white collar, a business owner and lived in 3 of the 10 largest metropolitan areas in the US. Carried a gun then. Don’t now.
So what does your study prove?
Ralph

#28

Ralph,
not MY study, as stated conducted by Canadian Justice Department. It does prove one thing as regards the socio-economic status of the typical gun owner!!!

     I made no emotional or ethical comment as regards comparing crime rates in the southern U.S. as compared to the north-eastern U.S.  I simply related statistical percentage gun ownership for the areas.  You are the one taking the offensive stance.  By your inference,  then crime rates in the Yukon must exceed those in Ontario,  Canada.

     If you actually spent a little time on research then you will find that statistically,  a young African American gun-owner is more likely to commit murder or be the victim of a firearm,  carried by another African American and is statistically,  more likely to be killed before the age of 24 by a firearm,  than any other ethnic group.  Possibly,  the statistical percentage of African Americans is higher in areas of high gun ownership?  If you feel 'justified' being a gunowner then why the emotionally charged defensive stance taken?  One only needs to Google firearm control on the web to see the thousands of articles written,  showing supposed 'proof' that individual private gun ownership is not detrimental to society.  Why do you feel so threatened by people who use their education/intellect and not their trigger finger to discuss matters? 

    You equate gun-control with fear.  I oppose guns therefore by your reckoning,  I must be afraid of them.  If I was living in an uncivilised society that the prerequisite was self protection,  then I would protect myself and my family.  Studies in Canada show low percentage gun ownership because the citizens feel that they are safe.  The requirement to feel the need to arm oneself reflects the society in which one lives.  I see the 'need' for farmers, sports/recreational shooters to own rifles and police/security officers to possess handguns.  I see no ethical need for a citizen to arm himself with a handgun.  I have no problem with you or your cohorts having rifles for recreational use,  but fail to see the need to feel that one must carry a handgun to go to the shops. Were you a 'loner', bullied or ridiculed as a youngster and feel the need to 'prove' yourself?
#29

Backs against the wall?

#30

So much for compassion.

Could someone, anyone, show me where in this thread there have been even a few words of condolence to the family of Pastor Fred Winters.

#31
Tim Brien said:
Ralph, 
    You equate gun-control with fear.  I oppose guns therefore by your reckoning,  I must be afraid of them.  If I was living in an uncivilised society that the prerequisite was self protection,  then I would protect myself and my family.  Studies in Canada show low percentage gun ownership because the citizens feel that they are safe.  The requirement to feel the need to arm oneself reflects the society in which one lives.  I see the 'need' for farmers, sports/recreational shooters to own rifles and police/security officers to possess handguns.  I see no ethical need for a citizen to arm himself with a handgun.  I have no problem with you or your cohorts having rifles for recreational use,  but fail to see the need to feel that one must carry a handgun to go to the shops. Were you a 'loner', bullied or ridiculed as a youngster and feel the need to 'prove' yourself?</blockquote>

When did I say you are afraid of guns or did I ever mention anyone’s fear?
There you go with the implied insults again.
Loner? Hell no. Always popular in school.
Bullied? No, I spent my time beating the hell out of the bullies.
I carry no gun now. I have no need.
If you see no need…you haven’t been to some of the places I have.
There are places you will be robbed, beat and probably killed just because you don’t look like they do.
Just because I have no need to carry now, I understand that not everyone is so fortunate.
I also understand that I may not be so fortunate in the future.
Ralph

#32

Tony, your pal Brian started it off with insults. Apparently, he doesn’t care about compassion…

#33
Tim Brien said:
Ralph, not MY study, as stated conducted by Canadian Justice Department. It does prove one thing as regards the socio-economic status of the typical gun owner!!!!!!! 
     I made no emotional or ethical comment as regards comparing crime rates in the southern U.S. as compared to the north-eastern U.S.  I simply related statistical percentage gun ownership for the areas.  You are the one taking the offensive stance.  By your inference,  then crime rates in the Yukon must exceed those in Ontario,  Canada.</blockquote>

Tim,

You are an arrogant plick. Are you trying to cast aspersions on the blue collar, non-college grad gun owner?

Those folks are what make America great, not the simpering Ivy League grads who hide behind walled communities.

#34

Deleted

#35

Nice try, Tony. But it won’t work.

Show me some of your agnostic compassion. Or, don’t you really care?

#36

Steve,
do not blame me, it’s those bloody Canadians, again!

#37
Steve Featherkile said:
Those folks are what make America great, not the simpering Ivy League grads who hide behind walled communities.
Steve, those with an ivy league education, assuming they do not get caught up in white collar tax frauds, are able to hire underlings to carry weapons to protect them.
#38

Steve.

Deleted

My sincere condolences to the family of Pastor Ted Winters.

Deleted

#39
Steve Featherkile said:
Tim Brien said:
Ralph, not MY study, as stated conducted by Canadian Justice Department. It does prove one thing as regards the socio-economic status of the typical gun owner!!!!!!! 
     I made no emotional or ethical comment as regards comparing crime rates in the southern U.S. as compared to the north-eastern U.S.  I simply related statistical percentage gun ownership for the areas.  You are the one taking the offensive stance.  By your inference,  then crime rates in the Yukon must exceed those in Ontario,  Canada.</blockquote>

Tim,

You are an arrogant plick. Are you trying to cast aspersions on the blue collar, non-college grad gun owner?

Those folks are what make America great, not the simpering Ivy League grads who hide behind walled communities.


Steve,
I believe you meant “arrogant prick”. You are much too kind.
Ralph

#40

I also love the 'Holier-than-thou" attitudes…:wink: