Well, guys, it got here, not too late - certainly in time for putting under the Christmas tree, or even running it …
Sadly, the price here, after discount, is around $1100.00, plus shipping…
Formerly-interested prospective buyers are staying away in droves from this marketing disaster from Bachmann.
I’ll hang on to my old SR&RL LGB version, and squint…
tac
www.ovgrs.org
That Accucraft brass model price for a plastic model is going to curdle the cream of alot of buyers…
Betcha Thomas sells in droves tho…
It is a great looking engine but Bachmann can keep it. I think Ridge Rd has them for around $600. Too much for me. I would rather spend the 500 for a Hartland mogule, better quality and less fragile. Even Bachmann seems to be getting high in price especially with the newer locos.
Victor Smith said:
That Accucraft brass model price for a plastic model is going to curdle the cream of alot of buyers...:(Betcha Thomas sells in droves tho…
Ridge Road has both lettered versions for $529.00 USD each, with the expected ‘Rio Grande’ fictional LGB version at $389.00. The earlier Sandy River #21/22 from LGB and the B’mann versions, should be similarly sized and from my reckoning of the prototypes, both appear quite accurate (within reason). Many have lampooned the 1993 LGB versions as fantasy, but a comparison to the prototype shows a reasonable likeness and approximately 1/19 scale.
Basically, a case of if you want an earlier version of the Maine two-footer, then be prepared to shell out the big bucks. If content to stick with a ‘reasonable’ rendition of #22 then the LGB version is fine, although, of late, mint LGB #22’s are climbing towards $475 - $495 each. Maybe the high B’mann price has encouraged the LGB price upward.
I find that if I can’t buy a loco for less than $100-$150 or a car for less than $25-$35, INCLUDING SHIPPING, I really don’t “need” to have it all that badly. As for “wants” that I can’t afford or by any stretch justify, as Kimmee grandma used to say, “Wish in one hand, sh-- in the other – and see which fills up first!”
My guess? Botchmann is shooting themselves in the foot with that kind of pricing, unless they WANT it to fail as an excuse to not make any more new LS products. Either that or they actually think will believe they’re now making LGB quality and want to become the next ‘boutique brand’
Give it time.
Al Kramer will prolly have 'em at $200.00 sooner or later.
John Bouck said:Yup - I'm still waiting for the $200 closeout on K's. It will happen sooner or later.
Give it time. Al Kramer will prolly have 'em at $200.00 sooner or later. :) :)
Mik said:
I find that if I can't buy a loco for less than $100-$150 or a car for less than $25-$35, INCLUDING SHIPPING, I really don't "need" to have it all that badly. As for "wants" that I can't afford or by any stretch justify, as Kimmee grandma used to say, "Wish in one hand, sh-- in the other -- and see which fills up first!"My guess? Botchmann is shooting themselves in the foot with that kind of pricing, unless they WANT it to fail as an excuse to not make any more new LS products. Either that or they actually think will believe they’re now making LGB quality and want to become the next ‘boutique brand’
Shawn said:Mik said:
I find that if I can't buy a loco for less than $100-$150 or a car for less than $25-$35, INCLUDING SHIPPING, I really don't "need" to have it all that badly. As for "wants" that I can't afford or by any stretch justify, as Kimmee grandma used to say, "Wish in one hand, sh-- in the other -- and see which fills up first!"My guess? Botchmann is shooting themselves in the foot with that kind of pricing, unless they WANT it to fail as an excuse to not make any more new LS products. Either that or they actually think will believe they’re now making LGB quality and want to become the next ‘boutique brand’
I have to agree. I feel the same way about spending only X amount on soemthing. For having a family to raise, Im just gratefull for the little I have to get me started on the hobby, especially considering I got into this hobby when the track prices went high and now look the engines are doing the same. Thatnk god for engines like the Rogers and the Mack and companies like Hartland with their affordable and good quality rolling stock/engins. All I need is a HLW Flatcar and just about anything can be made from it.
Does make you wonder what plans the Ting Dynasty and friends are thinking sometimes.
12 years of trying to get parts available, now I read Botch has a page on their forum to order parts.
What we DON’T know is if anybody has actually been able to get parts.
To do that on the web, means they will have to fix the basic flaw in their communication links (people) who, in the past, seemingly were unable to respond to e-mails.
Remember, #1, call, #2 FAX, #3 e-mail?
With the Forney-cator, they seem to have numbered these in a place the SR&RL never had numbers…another “make a model of something ALMOST to prototype, but if it’s a 'could-have-been” nobody CAN complain".
I don’t care.
Last thing I need is a 2’ prototype on 3’ rails.
Remember the screaming over the 2-8-0, when Botch measured a 30" engine for the model, all the screaming over six inches?
Now, will there be any screaming over twelve inches?
Time will tell.
Phone calls to various dealers and questions on how many on order indicate that just maybe some dealers are a little miffed at certain…policies, personnel, prototypes?
Just how many were pre-ordered?
One-line, even without a phone call, one can see a “minus one” on one website…does that mean they ordered ONE and sold it?
You can only claim “marketing and economy” so many times before someone catches on…
I’m sure Bachmann doesn’t give a rat’s butt about what you think either…
Dave,
I have to agree. B’mann are now catering for two types of modellers, the ‘enthusiastic children’ (hear no evil, see no evil, speak no evil) and the juvenile newbie who would not know something even if it bit them on the butt. The decline in ‘importance’ of the B’mann Forum as a means of getting the message out is evident by the typical non-sensical questions asked, like can ‘action’ figures be used with largescale or can the new largescale Thomas be used on ‘h.o.’ track? These people need to stop putting smoke oil in their stacks.
B'mann are responding to modellers' wishlists ("K" and the Forney were high on the list of desired locomotives), but answering the call is only part of their responsibility to the market. The selling price has to be comparable with what else is on the market. Two years after release, the 'K' is only $200 less than its Christmas 2007 release price. The Mallett (2008 Christmas release) has dropped around $100 since release. If any think that a $200 Forney is a possibility, then I suggest you do not hold your breath waiting. In two years time, these will still be commanding around $475.00.
I saw another manufacturer go through this process several years ago. I called it the Emperor's new clothes syndrone. No matter what was made, there was a movement of dedicated supporters to ensure that only positive comments were made. Any person who criticised the product was hounded in to abandoning the forum. I still have an expensive box of plated cast track clamps that are nothing but rubbish. When installed they expand and crack apart (design flaw?). The manufacturer stated that they were an excellent design, but typically, if an excellent design, why was production stopped? It is only independent forums that allow the truth to surface.
Insulated forums only support positive aspects of a manufacturer's product line, biassed by a band of dedicated 'children'.Forums that are independent and basically not moderated allow alot of trash to surface as well. All of this “holier than thou” hogwash makes one want to barf!
Tim Brien said:Hi Tim.
Dave, I have to agree. B'mann are now catering for two types of modellers, the 'enthusiastic children' (hear no evil, see no evil, speak no evil) and the juvenile newbie who would not know something even if it bit them on the butt. SNIP!!! Insulated forums only support positive aspects of a manufacturer's product line, biassed by a band of dedicated 'children'.
So where do you think John Joseph Sauer fits in?
Tony,
The (now defunct?) family forum said it all (even one of their staunchest supporters Jerry Mc? gave up on them)! If you criticised the product line then you were shown the door.
For JJS,
yes, an independent forum does present both a biassed and an independent line of thought, depending on the person posting the response. A person’s ‘preferences’ and inability to think for themselves, soon becomes apparent to the reader and these biassed comments are treated with the ‘respect’ they deserve. I respect a person’s liking for a particular product line, but this has to be tempered with a sense of rationality. I like my Bachmann products, but only after I have stripped and rebuilt them to my satisfaction.
I’ve already gotten some flak on the B’mann forum for pointing out that the large scale Thomas lineup cannot be used out of the box with any other lineup other than similar Bmann Thomas products unless you KNOW to look for those silly adapters. The issue that coupler height is like wheel gauge, we expect to be able to put any large scale product onto any 45mm brand track and have it roll, just as when we see hook & loop couplers mounted on a product we expect it to be able to couple to any similarly equiped large scale car. Throwing a 1/2" height difference monkey wrench into the works was just plain dumb, how hard would it have been to ship them with the couplers at the standard height? Like ANYONE buying one would ever rivet counter it and say “Oh the couplers are 1/2” too low" … I’m curious to see how many complaints about not being able to couple to other cars will be registered on the Bmann forum starting after the 25th.
My former gripes with Bach were justified, whether the forum was moderated or not. I bitched about the gear on their forum and didn’t get thrown off.
Now I see the $50.00 gear can be had a hellova lot cheaper.
Vic,
the ‘thickhead’ syndrone is not only on that particular forum. I posted on this site as regards compatability issues with the 'revered polarity (NMRA compliance) wiring issues with the Thomas line. The criticism was just exactly how many are going to run Thomas and company in conjunction with other ‘normal’ railroad equipment?
My point was that regardless of polarity, I have issues with my reverse loops (NMRA compliant locomotives must enter the loop from the opposite direction) and also I use diodes to stop a locomotive at the end of a blind siding. NMRA compliant locomotives will simply sail through the siding and hit the bumper stop (fine, unless like me, your railroad is raised by around five feet at this point!). They then cannot electrically exit the siding. Compliance with standards is fine, but as we have been using opposite defacto standards for forty odd years, then I do not believe that one should be criticised for stating that non-standardised wiring issues can impact on our railroad operations. For the round the Christmas tree crowd, this is obviously not an issue.Tim Brien said:Well, one of me, anyway. :D
... how many are going to run Thomas and company in conjunction with other 'normal' railroad equipment?