Large Scale Central

Good enough or strive to perfection. Apologies to Craig

I think there’s always a drive to improve. I like to try at least one new technique or challenge with almost every model I build. It keeps things from getting stale. With my recent 40-ton center cab, the challenge was creating realistic rust effects. Nothing monumental, but just a little thing I’ve been wanting to try. I took what I learned there and revisited the weathering on some of my steel EBT hoppers. That’s the cool thing. As you continue to raise the bar on yourself (to keep from getting bored), you can always go back and revisit the older models that are no longer up to snuff. There’s no shame in rebuilding a model to make it better. The prototypes were frequently rebuilt. (And it’s a lot cheaper than buying/building new.)

Later,

K

Devon Sinsley said:

If you achieved the level of perfection that you currently posses on your first and subsiquent builds without improving would it still be enjoyable today?

Probably not. My first buildings were simple boxes made from Styrofoam with PP veneers glued to them. They were mainly for the yard area, tool houses, section houses, etc.

Since I live in the Northeast, where temps can range from 100 to -10, with hurricanes, hail, rain, snow, and even the rare tornado passing through, I have to skip adding a lot of detail and place more emphasis on ruggedness and durability. What that means is using material that will hold up under most of those conditions, with minimum maintenance involved and building something that blends into the layout unobtrusively and looks halfway believable which can be a challenge in it’s own right.

I have torn apart things I was building because I wasn’t happy with what I was trying to acheive, on others I left them they way they were since they would only be noticeable to me anyway. As your confidence in your abilities and your knowledge of what materials work and what doesn’t improves, I, at least, try to make the next build an improvement over the last build.

Devon:

I try to improve in that I learn from my mistakes and try not to make them again. Other than that I apply “The First Rule Of Mik” - have fun. If it’s not fun, it’s not worth spending the time.

Interesting comments, I love looking at great modelers builds, Ray, Bruce and a whole lot of others, but I know I will not be that good, not into it, I build just to build, my son and I are very happy with what we build, how our RR is coming along, and it will forever be changing, thats the fun out of it.

But its up to you personally to be satisfied in what you build, cannot ever be perfect, nothing is, you can strive to be really good though.

I know my builds arent that good, and so are a lot of others, so what, I enjoy the sprit of it, that is what I liked about Mik so much, it did not matter to him what it looked like, some of Vics builds are very strange, but I cant wait to see what a very creative mind will build next, same as Ray, cant wait to see what he does next, the creativity is what makes me keep looking.

dont be so hard on yourself, not worth it, just keep building and they will come…

great positive comments!

Tom H

Thanks for all the interesting comments. It’s been fun reading them and seeing where others think about their modeling philosophy.

There’s a limit to everything, and as I think about this build (and the space & tools that I have) I think what I’ve got is near the best that I can do at the moment. Now I jst need to kick myself in the rear and clean up the computer desk so I have room again.

Craig Townsend said:

Thanks for all the interesting comments. It’s been fun reading them and seeing where others think about their modeling philosophy.

There’s a limit to everything, and as I think about this build (and the space & tools that I have) I think what I’ve got is near the best that I can do at the moment. Now I jst need to kick myself in the rear and clean up the computer desk so I have room again.

Glad you came around, now I can se you finish this very cool build instead of listening to your fret about it(http://largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-smile.gif)(http://largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-wink.gif). No seriously I have been patiently waiting to see where it goes. Honeslty because you are so worried about it means the atention to detail will be great.

I just expect the brass one to be a museum piece.

Now quite wasting time and buid me a snow dozer ( and I still think it needs the teeth and the Calvin sticker)

I wasn’t fretting I just was over analyzing and being an anal rivet counter…

After reading through the many postings again it seems that most model to their own perceived level of perfection. Most are willing to learn a new method and move past just putting pieces on. They will try a little use of brass shapes, or even do a little soldering of metal parts and slowly add to the amount of how much metal work gets done. They will start outadding new premade pieces to a model and then start making their own detail parts. Though each stage is ‘good enough’ there is contant improvement of their skill.

At this time I’m working on a build that will require me to Bend heavy plastic sheet to get the form. I have had success bending and shaping plastic in the past, but now I have to stretch those skills to accomplish what needs to be done.

Perfection I leave to the machines and computers. But I do strive for damn close in most of my endeavors but that is just that I like to challenge myself in my hobby.

Craig Townsend said:
I wasn’t fretting I just was over analyzing and being an anal rivet counter…

(http://largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-smile.gif)I know what your going through. I fight the inner demon also. My loco is getting completely re-repainted. It has to many mistakes for me. I need a little sanding and repainting so that it looks perfect so I can mess it up with weathering. I really do understand where your coming from.

I guess when I’m working on a model, I don’t think of it as striving for “perfection.” It’s more like “Am I satisfied with this?”. For instance, on my fire truck model I started with an idea of using a shoe lace to model the fire hose. Seemed like a good idea until I saw the results. Next, I decided to carve it out for foamed PVC. Eh, it might look OK from 10 feet away, but I’m still not happy with it. So, it’s on to plan C…or D. We’ll see.

What I come up with will NOT be perfection, but it will be good enough to satisfy me. And who knows? I might have to go back to plan B. (http://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-foot-in-mouth.gif)

Fun topic. Coming from someone who cant even draw a stick figure… or never did any kind of modeling in the past.

I would love to have perfect models but I have learned that I will never have those skills. Im ok with that because I know a perfect model would never stand up to the elements and being carried around. My main goal is to creat something that looks good to my eyes and can be believable but different from every other layout. I like to have my own style like Mik and others. When i build Im not big on measuring things. I tend to eyeball most stuff. Modeling a backwoods logging theme helps. Nothing was built to perfection, things tended to look worn and broken. My mistakes tend to add to that realism (at least I like to think it does lol) If I was modeling a protypical RR then I might be more concerened with the details but only those details that would be noticable. I have learned to cover up my mistakes. My skills have gotten better over the yearsbecause I practice but also aquring some of the nesasary tools helps as well. When I started I used a hand drill. Now I have a drill press and this allows me to get stright drill holes etc… Getting a lathe will help me learn to make my own parts. I want to solder more so I can make more brass stuff and maybe a scratch built steamer one day.

Here you go, Shawn. Hope this helps… (http://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-foot-in-mouth.gif)

Once you’ve mastered that, you should be able to start on that steamer. (http://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-laughing.gif)

This is a really interesting topic!

Just a quick thought if you don’t mind? I know this might seem a little long winded but please bear with me :slight_smile:

I remember a column from Model Railroader by Tony Koester on his Nickel Plate multi-deck layout that is often featured in the pages of the magazine. I forget now the exact wording but it was along the lines of what is “good enough?” I think the point he was making is that his layout is obviously very large, and to get it up and running he had to everything to a certain standard to start his regular operating sessions. He thus needed to get projects completed, and his comment was that he couldn’t justify spending weeks super-detailing a plain-jane 40’ boxcar when there were so many other projects like scenery etc to complete. Instead he offered up the idea of blanket standard of modelling, one which he felt was “good enough for now.” For example that could mean that the bulk of his rolling stock received proper couplers and weathering, but were not necessarily super-detailed to a museum display level. This would then allow him to work en masse to build his boxcars etc up to a standard which he felt was pleasing to the eye and “good enough,” also leaving enough time for all the other things that he needed to finish up. I think he also continued to suggest that he would go back and revisit and raise this overall standard, improving, tweaking and re-doing, but the concept remained that everything was to a singular, or at least similar, standard all round.

I quite liked this philosophy! For me, it meant trying to prioritise my limited time and to aim to try to complete projects, so that ultimately I can make running models and can include those on our own operating sessions. I only say this because I am 100% with Craig here, I struggle to accept my own limitations and I really am WAY too picky about things!

I guess what I am saying here is that for our line, the Somerville & St. Francis River, I like to pick a challenging but achievable standard, and work towards that. This means that I can enjoy the challenge, but at the same time complete projects and get stock out into the garden rather than trapped on a shelf. It doesn’t however mean that I am limited by that standard though, like Kevin S mentions above. I continually go back to older models and improve or add new detail to try to always raise the overall standard of our line. For example, I am now systematically returning to old ready-to-run aristo boxcars and adding brake hoses and coupler lift bars to help improve their detail. I think in the end, I don’t want to have one beautifully built, 100% rivet accurate locomotive, which I can’t run because my track is so poor or I haven’t yet built a railroad to run it on! I mean please don’t get me wrong as I really aspire to the level of detail that Craig refers to, that is my bench mark as well, but I also try to ground that idea within the context of our whole line, and all the tasks that are required to maintain it and keep it running smoothly.

Tony’s ideas made a lot of sense to me and I hope others can find it useful too?

Best wishes,

G

Allen Mcclelland, of the Virginia and Ohio Ry Co, one of Tony’s friends, is the one who first coined the term, back in the 1970’s. We call it “Operations Quality.”

Yeah, that was it! Thank you Steve for jogging my memory!

Yep, “Operations Quality”, that’s about where I am…I think. 18" of snow later, I’m not sure…won’t know until April I think. More reason I think to build an elevated layout. “Leveler” track and less snow. Gonna start that project this spring. I’ve talked about it long enough. Hmm, will require better modeling than the 10 foot rule. A good challenge to try to approach the Port Orford RR. Thank you Richard.

Before I forget, was visiting the Phoenix area this past month and discovered a new GR layout that is being constructed by a garden railroad group at Goldfield, at the Goldfield Museum, at the beginning of the Apache Trail road near the Superstition Mountains. It will be a large elevated layout, with the control elevated above the layout, in the center. Those of you in the Phoenix area might want to check it out. Looks to be a great project. Looking forward to going back next winter to see their progress. Hmm, maybe this belongs in the General Form.

Rich Niemeyer said:

Before I forget, was visiting the Phoenix area this past month and discovered a new GR layout that is being constructed by a garden railroad group at Goldfield, at the Goldfield Museum, at the beginning of the Apache Trail road near the Superstition Mountains. It will be a large elevated layout, with the control elevated above the layout, in the center. Those of you in the Phoenix area might want to check it out. Looks to be a great project. Looking forward to going back next winter to see their progress. Hmm, maybe this belongs in the General Form.

Naaah.
It will just get buried there. Put it in the "Conventions,Shows and Clubs section if they have a link Rich?

Good idea David. Will do. It’s going to be a really neat layout when done. If I lived down there, I’d get involved. A bunch of nice guys.

Since Tony Koester’s name popped up; in the March 2015 MR he titled his usual column “Being too experienced”. Plenty of food for thought in that one; in a nutshell: one of his neighbours started a layout and came up with completely different and “unconventional” methods of doing things. Tony’s point being that “too much experience” has a tendency to get one stuck in the old ways.

As mentioned, a really good read and plenty of food for thought.

PS One of the main reasons I still read the mags which cover the smaller scales is the likelihood of coming across some really nifty items that haven’t made it to LS yet, but can be readily adapted.

I read that commentary as well, thanks to the magazine rack at the grocery store. (http://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-tongue-out.gif)