Large Scale Central

Golden Opportunity for the Forums?

General Discussion
#1

Bob said:

No insults. Period. This includes things like personal attacks, attacks on companies, or attacks on products. If you have a legitimate concern or complaint about a product, post something like “I don’t think XYZ is working like it should, here’s why” not “the company that makes XYZ always produces crap”. Spot the difference? Specifically, the “Bachmann is crap” and “Aristo dont know what they’re doing” ends now.

The old LGB is dead. Polk’s Hobby is ending 12-31-13. As sad as this may be, perhaps it represents a Golden Opportunity for the Forums to become what I think everyone really wants them to be.

There are two facts:

  1. LGB is dead so nothing can be resolved by complaining about anything LGB did or did not do in the past.

  2. Polk’s Hobby will be closed 1-1-14 so nothing can be resolved by complaining about anything Polk’s did or did not do before then.

Perhaps the best thing the forums can do in the future is for all of the members to forget the past and start out fresh with a primary goal of helping each other to make the best of the products they have.

These manufacturers can no longer be expected to resolve any issues with existing products in stock at dealers or in the hands of customers. Instead the members could refocus on helping each other without dependence on a manufacturer to do anything.

Some members may think other members have been blind to past problems but perhaps they might be willing to give those members credit for more intelligence than that. If not, does it really matter?

Some members might demand that a manufacturer fix something while others might be patient and wait for the manufacturer to fix it. At this stage is anyone more or less right?

Is how we got into this situation really important anymore?

How about a future defined by Bob’s words above?

Jerry

#2

Jerry,
Well said.

#3

Golden Opportunity for the Forums? Sounds like a golden opportunity for an entrepreneur. Barry made out OK for many years improving the Bachmann 4-6-0.

#4

Pete Thornton said:

Golden Opportunity for the Forums? Sounds like a golden opportunity for an entrepreneur. Barry made out OK for many years improving the Bachmann 4-6-0.

I totally agree.

Barry is a perfect example.

In both cases the hobby can have a better future. Anything that can keep our trains running longer is a good thing.

Jerry

#5

Jerry McColgan said:

…

Is how we got into this situation really important anymore?

…

It is to those who are willing and able to learn.

For instance I’m willing to give most “new” things a try. If it is “no good” I’ll try to return and get a refund. BTW “no good” is not the same as “not suitable for my purposes”.

If one buys xyz from some suppliers one is likely to get an evaluation request. I gladly complete those; if the service, the product or the presentation of the product is sub-par then I will list exactly how the product doesn’t live up to the hype.

With today’s media customer feedback plays into the buying decisions of those who are happy that someone else learned the “straight facts”" and isn’t afraid to post those facts.

Once upon a time there was a VP at Kalmbach (someone very fond of LGB) who sent me a PM after I published the scale facts on one forum. The message read: “I had no idea that the stuff is that far off the mark!”

To sum it up: How we got to this point is very important.

#6

WHAAAAAAAAT?!

Seriously Jerry SERIOUSLY???

To quote Slim Pickens in Dr Strangelove:

“Well, I’ve been to one world fair, a picnic, and a rodeo, and that’s the stupidest thing I ever heard …”

Heck No I wont conform to such a blind view of the universe and here’s why.

If I am being asked to fork over an ever increasing chunk of my hard earned money for my trains when I get them home they had better work, PERIOD! and it had better work for the expected lifespan of the model. If I have to spend two weeks fixing some factory foul up thats been a factory foul up for the last 5-7-10 years why the heck am I even buying this in the first place?

Ask Chrysler why are they now owned by Fiat?

I know this CAN be done because I have 70 YEAR OLD Marx trains that STILL run like a swiss clock, yet my 0-4-0 and many many other AC products had wheels that broke loose and spun after only a short time usage, WHY IS THAT JERRY? Is the expected lifetime of my $$$ investment ONLY measured in weeks or months?

AC knew they had issues going back YEARS yet they never even acknowledged there was any problem, and never really seriously addressed a real fix to them other than to say send it back and send out a brand new replacement, how much $$$ did they loose over the years doing that?.

Would you knowingly BUY A CAR that was only good for a few months? or an Ipad or a Flatscreen TV ?

Of course you wouldn’t. These may be “toys” to some here but they are dam expensive toys to the rest of us and are only getting more expensive. The prices may be small change to some here, but I dont have a Trust Fund to buy my purchases, when I buy something I darn well expect it to work for a reasonable time-frame (years!) before needing serious maintenance or replacement.

My HLW, LGB Bachmann and yes, even my Aristo diesel power bricks have served me well but their steam lineup…?.

BTW what are we to do if a newbie comes on the forum and says, Hey I just bought a AC Mallet but the wheels are slipping, why is this? What is your response? SHHHHHHH dont talk about that, its forbidden… What the heck kind of response is that? That newbie has a right to know the HOW and WHY they are experiencing that and WHAT to be aware (or beware of) of in future purchases. Any hushing up of said past events simply because its distressful to some is a shear DISSERVICE to the LS community.

So heck no, I wont conform, I prefer Reality to Neverland!

The following quote is more appropriate than EVER here, if anyone didn’t learn the lessons from the EPL debacle than the fault is not ours:

Those who cannot remember the past are doomed to repeat it. George Santayama

…so Wake Up, have a hot bracing cup of fresh coffee and face the morning glow of the new days sunrise, Welcome to reality, bracing isn’t it!

(http://rack.1.mshcdn.com/media/ZgkyMDEyLzEyLzA0L2E1L2ljYW5oYXNjaGVlLmJ5by5qcGcKcAl0aHVtYgk5NTB4NTM0IwplCWpwZw/b3f55474/5f7/i-can-has-cheezburger-on-tv-reality-show-planned-for-bravo-3283dd863e.jpg)

#7

He’s not asking form conformity he’s asking for civility

#8

Jerry,
you request civility. Maybe that has something to do with your past on this site. Is this why you want the past FORGOTTEN. I remeber you asking for privileges such that a member could determine who actually responded to that member’s postings. Talk about censorship!!!

You co founded a family site that vetted new members, ruling out any who had upset you in the past and then vetted any postings for approval, sometimes taking days to appear on the site. I really think that you would be wise to not give advice on this site. Why not get Big Tony involved again and start another forum that you can completely control?

If these seem insults to you then it is only your past coming back to haunt. A leopard never changes its spots. What is next in your new idea of how this site should operate. Do we call your Sir?

In case you did not know it your new avatar has already been taken by Nick S. A simple perusal of this site would have highlighted that point.

I am more than willing to forget the past, but I think you have a hide telling us how to behave.

#9

Mark Dash said:

He’s not asking form conformity he’s asking for civility

Mark,
you mention “civility”. Perhaps go back and read your last two responses to Dave (TOC) on the “taboo Topics” thread.

#10

He wants us to accept censorship, and that is conformity of the worst form

#11

Tim Brien said:

Mark Dash said:

He’s not asking form conformity he’s asking for civility

Mark,
you mention “civility”. Perhaps go back and read your last two responses to Dave (TOC) on the “taboo Topics” thread.

Don’t do that, Tim. He won’t understand.

#12

Jerry McColgan said:

Pete Thornton said:

Golden Opportunity for the Forums? Sounds like a golden opportunity for an entrepreneur. Barry made out OK for many years improving the Bachmann 4-6-0.

I totally agree.

Barry is a perfect example.

In both cases the hobby can have a better future. Anything that can keep our trains running longer is a good thing.

Jerry

Jerry,
a unique idea would be the ability to buy a decently made product in the first instance then aftermarket suppliers would be redundant. You are apparently in favour of forgive and forget when it comes to manufacturers. In the past I seem to recall a lot of your postings on another site where your views were less than forgiving with manufacturers. Sorry consumer laws are a reality.

As regards aftermarket manufacturers like Barry, there will always be a market for items that are precision made and there will always be people willing to purchase these better made goods.

#13

Curmudgeon mcneely said:

Tim Brien said:

Mark Dash said:

He’s not asking form conformity he’s asking for civility

Mark,
you mention “civility”. Perhaps go back and read your last two responses to Dave (TOC) on the “taboo Topics” thread.

Don’t do that, Tim. He won’t understand.

Dave,
I am an optimist. I hope that one day, one’s memory of the past extends back beyond their current posting. I live in hope. I also have a bridge in Brooklyn for sale and a very tall block of offices on Manhattan Island for sale, really, really cheap.

#14

Tim Brien said:

Mark Dash said:

He’s not asking form conformity he’s asking for civility

Mark,
you mention “civility”. Perhaps go back and read your last two responses to Dave (TOC) on the “taboo Topics” thread.

or perhaps I read his comment, and thought “is this bickering going to solve anything”

perhaps I have decided to be the better man, and remove myself from further comments

perhaps I’m actually here because I like trains

good day

#15

Well guys, since English isn’t my mother tongue I’m quite often flabbergasted how some interpret “things”.

How could one state

He’s not asking form(sic) conformity he’s asking for civility

when that is the desired outcome.

As to civility, it is possible that Jerry’s memory has a few gaps, mine does, too, but they are few and far between.

In my opinion civility also includes accepting proven facts stated by others. I’m not talking about figments of the imagination, but proven facts. If one can’t accept those one has a problem with reality.

A typical example would be scale. I don’t care how many xyz cars of different makes and different scales one assembles in a picture and then tries to sell that they look just like what’s out there in the real world.

Yes, they all run on 45mm track, but that’s where it ends. Period!

As far as the mfgs go (including their various histories) they all have warts, but they don’t need a face lift or heavy make-up applied by their congregation, what they’re in need of is a mirror. Fora are like mirrors.

#16

Mark Dash said:

Tim Brien said:

Mark Dash said:

He’s not asking form conformity he’s asking for civility

Mark,
you mention “civility”. Perhaps go back and read your last two responses to Dave (TOC) on the “taboo Topics” thread.

or perhaps I read his comment, and thought “is this bickering going to solve anything”

perhaps I have decided to be the better man, and remove myself from further comments

perhaps I’m actually here because I like trains

good day

I like it. Right down the chapter and verse.
First, you set yourself above others:
“I have decided to be the better man”.
Pure and simple bashing of everyone else.
Good so far.
“remove myself from further comments”.
Usually designed to make folks feel sorry for you, as in “don’t go…we value your input”.
Still good.
“I’m actually here because I like trains”
Not sure on that one. Is it a put-down to others that you like trains and they don’t?
I think we have a classic part three failure here.
Everybody on this forum likes trains.
But, you win on “is this bickering going to solve anything”, since the only ones bickering about anything at all seem to be the group that screams bickering, bashing, whining the loudest.
You win!

#17

Vic Smith said:

(http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mefsupcgxH1qdm61io1_500.gif)

…bunch of pictures…

Dont do that, please.

#18

Sorry Bob but it was the only thing that truly conveyed my utter disbelief.

I’ll try to find something more bandwidth friendly.

but the cat stays

#19

A “Golden Opportunity” does exist to improve this forum. However, the “Pig” has not changed and no amount of perfume nor lipstick is going disguise that fact. The very things (pomposity, bombast, innuendao, invective, insult, ignorance, paucity, false premise, untruth, opinion, venom, rightousness, rectitude and pretention) that constitute the offending animal are still present in this thread with its current several posts. It reads much as the other offending posts in other threads.

Until humility, cordiality and civility enter the picture coupled with facts, organization and coherence, noone can expect that anything will change. Type A personalities with overweaning egos who possess some knowledge and presentation skills can create an atmosphere of discontent and dissatisfaction by insisting that their world view is the only true belief and path. I have heard the names of several individuals bandied about in a manner that defies any understanding. They do not deserve the bile and vituperation spewed upon them. There have also been other names mentioned that while deserving critical comment and perhaps civil censure certainly do not deserve the scat and offal hurled at them.

Incivility, haughtiness, disdain apppear to be a regular method to discredit and degrade the objects of wrath in these theads. They have no place on this or any forum.

Respectfully,

NYC Buff

#20

Hehehe.

Anyway.
You want something new, folks?
Well, once we stop telling anyone being truthful that they are bashing…you had best hope someone isn’t so piXXed off they leave…and that someone cares enough to generate ways and means to fix some of the newly orphaned equipment.

Worse case, if somebody doesn’t pick up the line, or the majority of it, and you have $10,000 worth of stuff with no parts available at all…

You are going to need all those people you have accused of “bashing” to figure out how to keep the stuff running.

Seriously.

I used to do that, but, like now, got dead tired of the “bashing” comments (yes, it has been done before…you guys haven’t invented it) that I just quit.
At least in public.
I still do it, still find ways to fix the stuff.

Maybe you’ll get someone to build splined axles and wheels for your steamers.
Could be done, especially using the design of bits on the 2-8-0 and 0-4-0 as a pattern.
Motors should be no problem.
Circuit boards…yeah, not too hard to design a copy from a known good and have them built. But they won’t be cheap.

I guess it’s your call.
You already chased Greg away, who worked hard to make the stuff functional.

You going to stop with the name calling and hostile atmosphere?

There is, as a major issue, a total lack of respect for those who work to keep your “toys” functional.

You get Jerry hollering about civility when he means censorship, and it has been apparent for some time most of you don’t have a clue what civility means.

I tried to point out what to me was obvious…and was bashed for it…and baited.

All I have done here of late, really, is to get you folks to think on your own.
Now is the time.

Keep this up, nobody is going to be interested in helping.

You’d best hope you didn’t chase Greg away permanently.

TOC