Dave
I am surprised by your message. You sure have collected a lot of mis-information.
As you know, all control systems (including DC) have a signal component and a power component. In DC both are one and can not be separated. In most other forms of control the two parts can come from two different sources. In traditional DCC, most often used in HO scale, the signal and power come from the same source but it does not have to be that way. The term Direct DCC is now often used when the signal and power are not from the same source. For example you can have direct radio control with on board batteries and use a DCC decoder to control your locomotive.
Curmudgeon said:
and, if you want ONLY battery, to get into the rigamarole of dcc, decoders, handhelds......and still, signal has to go down the track.
What does one do when the track is under water?
I've run through it.
Packet transfer can't be very good in muddy water.
I am going to have to admit I do not like operating much in heavy rain. Nothing to do with the control system used. I just do not find it fun. Not much mud on my railroad either as I tend to design good drainage. But when I do run in the rain the locomotives run just fine and I have no problems with getting the signal to the locomotive.
Why do you think the signal has to go down the track? Then again why not?
Most (but not all) of my locomotives get the signal through the track and as long as the locomotive has power the packet reception is close to 100%. The packet reception is actually better through the rail then through the air. Leaves, mud, dead frogs or water do not matter much to signal reception. I also get nearly 100% signal while the locomotive is in a 23 foot tunnel.
Quote:
If hybrid, and very dirty track, your dwell time will be so bad you're going to need BIG batteries to do the job long enough, plus charge rates set high enough to keep them up....with commensurate pickup issues and surge current.
Not sure how you came to that conclusion. I use between 8 and 12 AAA 900ma batteries in most of the locomotives with batteries. I use a 100ohm resistor for the charge circuit. Seems to work very well even on extremely dirty track and I never have to charge them. The only problem I had was running during an ice storm last year with the track totally coated with a layer of ice. After about 1/2 hour the batteries had fully discharged, they were not fully charged when I started. So yes if I want to run on ice for long periods I will indeed need larger batteries or will need an external charging jack. The supercap solution also seems to work well in most locomotives on very dirty track but it clearly has a shorter run time when no power is available. I like the use of smaller battery packs or supercaps because they are easier to fit in most locomotives.
Quote:
I would never, and I mean ever, get into that.
I do NOT want something that has more buttons and options than my cordless phone to run trains.
I don't even own a cell phone. Not interested in button technology, nor knobs you cannot rotate in a zip-lock baggie in the rain.
Or handhelds you get to piggyback off your cordless phone.
Or handpiece tethers.
Where in the world did you come up with that opinion? What in the world does the way one transmits the control signal have anything to do with the style of throttle you have in your hand?
Each user has a preference for what they hold in their hand to control their locomotive. What I like you may not like and what you like I do not like much (yes I have run with one of your older throttles on a DCC layout).
But the point is who cares? Pick the handheld you like to use, such a choice is totally independent of the technology that is used to send the signal to the locomotive. I have a wide variety of throttles on my layout as my operators have different preferences. The choice of throttle has absolutely nothing to do with DCC or any other type of control. Any throttle type can be adapted to most any form of control.
Quote:
I read all this stuff, on all the forums, realized long ago "standardized" dcc isn't.
Now, where did I put those 1K ohm resistors and my cheat sheets again?
Yes indeed with over 30 manufacturers producing product, there can be some interchange problems from time to time. Not much different then some of the wheel and track interchange problems that sometimes arise. But there is clearly a lot more interchange and choice of product between different manufacturers using DCC then there is in other forms of control
It is pretty clear that in the future locomotives will start having more internal electronics in part to reduce the wiring and improve the performance. DCC is one very good technology for controlling the motor, sound, and functions in the locomotive. This is not a threat to those that use direct radio control with batteries.
Simply plug in a radio receiver to the decoder and install your batteries. No big deal.
Stan Ames
PS For those going to Portland, I will be presenting a clinic on this topic at the Narrow Gauge Convention. I will demonstrate a locomotive with a decoder being run with track power and signal, track signal and internal power, and internal power with the signal via radio. The locomotive in this case automatically converts to the various forms of signal/power. Perhaps some on this forum will attend and report back.
