Large Scale Central

Frost heave = epic frustration level

Track and Trestles
#41

Fred Mills, BSc, BS, SD said:

It is common knowledge, in deep frost areas, that any posts put into the ground, even when concrete is used to support the post in the hole; will move with the frost, unless the post is in deep enough to bottom below the maximum frost depth.

I have a large fence post with a gate on it. The other end of the gate is latched to a fixture on the house.

During the full year, the post moves in the soil anywhere from an inch, or three, up and down. Even the moisture content of the soil causes this fluctuation…along with the frost. It sure isn’t the house moving, as its foundation is on bed rock…

I can’t understand the use of those “Pipes” to support the ladder roadbed. Why not just support it with backfill, and or anything (Rocks, old bricks, dead body parts, etc) you want to get rid of. This would save the cost of the pipe/posts, and avoid putting them into the ground, to be moved by the frost.

But…as I suggest…what do I know…I’ve only been operating a outdoor railroad on PT roadbed for 20 or more years, and am still learning…!!

Fred, the front porch on my house moves just like your fence post. I have also noticed that my cement driveway will move up or down a little from time, as it slowly creeps away from the house. I too float my track in ballast. But I didn’t put any supporting structure under my track. Some springs I wish I had, but most times it works out ok.

As for supporting anything on dead body parts, that only works for so long. The body parts soon decompose and no longer add support to whatever they were supposed to support.

:wink:

#42

What a debacle all this has been. I pulled out all of my stakes. Then the ladder bed went to hell. I used veranda decking for my ladder bed. What I found was; the veranda is a sawdust plastic mix. It has a plastic outer coating. When i ripped it to make my ladder bed I opened up the coating, letting water in. This wasn’t bad when the ladder bed was held down by stakes. After the removal of the stakes the ladder bed started to warp and twist worst of all in the sun.

Where I used pure PVC for my ladder bed i have had no problems at all. It holds its shape well and doesn’t warp and twist. I wish i would have started with that. Although pricey it appears to be the better choice for me. But, I can’t afford to do my layout in all pvc. So, I bit the bullet and went back to floating in gravel. Now I need to figure out drainage.

Terry

#43

Terry- Floating track in gravel works great. I’m in Buffalo and we have similar frost heave (maybe worse?). I’ve been floating my track since day one, with no real problems. You might need to touch up the ballast a bit after winter, but thats more like a maintenance thing. The only drainage issue I’ve had is on the lower loop- I made it a bit too low! I’ll be correcting that in a few weeks when I re-do the line. Good luck.

-Kevin.

#44

I had terrible luck last time floating my track. I did everything ‘right’ but it washed out terrible and was always out of line and level causing derailments everywhere.

I would really like to build a large deck at about 40" ballasted with my buildings on it But I can’t afford it right now. I would also like to use pure pvc boards as my ladder base because they seem to work much better, but right now I can’t afford those either… Gravel is cheap and i have a shovel and pickup truck. :slight_smile:

Terry

#45

Terry, check with Mark Gilger what type of adhesive he uses to keep the ballast together.

#46

Bob, I looked that up and it ain’t cheap! I dunno how far it goes though.

T

#47

Well wash outs are something that we do have to deal with, when we don’t account for where the water will go. When we had the flash flooding, that took out 2 major road ways around here, I also had a washout on my railroad. Since that section has washed out before, I buried a steel pipe in that part of the roadbed. Its my drainage culvert. The pipe is a bit higher on the side where the water comes from, and it sloped down to the side I want the water to exit the pipe from. So far that section hasn’t washed out.

#48

Yeah I learned that on the hard way. The washouts I get are hard to explain they aren’t the heavy rain wash outs they are from general rain. I’m working on ideas but mainly I have to edge my entire layout to keep the gravel in place.

Terry

#49

Too bad you are not closer; I could probably help you out with some PVC that could be ripped down for roadbed. I tried to give away a bunch of small pieces at Shawn’s on Tuesday and only had a few takers. Brought most of it back home.

#50

Jon Radder said:

Too bad you are not closer; I could probably help you out with some PVC that could be ripped down for roadbed. I tried to give away a bunch of small pieces at Shawn’s on Tuesday and only had a few takers. Brought most of it back home.

I knew I should have gone! I would have taken it all.

#51

Then you just need to work extra hard as Jean’s recovery coach so you can get up to Bob’s and claim some!