Large Scale Central

For Sale: GE Centercab by CMP (built by Accucraft.)

I recently bought this locomotive from CMP as they are going out of business.

The advertised scale on the website and the box is 1:20.3. The model is NOT 1:20.3 scale. It is, however, a very nice looking centercab, I’m guessing somewhere between 1:24 and 1:29 depending on where and how you measure.

I spent $400.00 on it. I’d like to recoup as much of that as I can … it’s been out of the box to look at and never run … and will come in the box it came to me in.

I’d consider a trade, too.

Matthew (OV)

Matthew,

How do you figure this engine is NOT 1/20.3? The 44 tonners were about 33 to 34 foot long which equates to CMP’s length of 18 1/2".

about 33.5 foot long and 13.4 foot high.

so what are the dimensions of the model?

18.5" length comes out to 21.7 : 1 scale.

I’d be interested in the model loco’s height (from the rail head), as the height being wrong is often more off-putting if the scale is off… prime example is F units way different height from std passenger cars.

Greg

Greg Elmassian said:

about 33.5 foot long and 13.4 foot high.

so what are the dimensions of the model?

18.5" length comes out to 21.7 : 1 scale.

I’d be interested in the model loco’s height (from the rail head), as the height being wrong is often more off-putting if the scale is off… prime example is F units way different height from std passenger cars.

Greg

Greg,

One thing that puzzles me about CMP’s model is that they say it’s 1/20.3 running on 45mm track. That would have to be 3 foot gauge. I looked at quite a few GE 44 tonners today and all were standard gauge. Were these re-gauged for NG?

http://freightsheds.largescalecentral.com/users/slatecreek/44ton2.jpg

They were exported all around the world. The US military bought 57 of them. They also made a drop cab narrow and broad gauge versions because of the smaller clearances in Europe.
I had a USA trains version in 1:29, it was only about 13" or so long.


Andrew

There were a bunch of NG 45 tonners, and several 44’s as well. Nothing I’ve ever seen matches the profile of this engine …

17" long

6.25" tall to the cab roof (includes height of flanges; loco on table not on rails…)

4.25" wide

Figures in the above are Richard K’s … note also the relative size of handles and windows … even in a “drop cab” configuration (which this isn’t) it’s still way too small across the board …

Recognize that the cab might be close if there were no battery box underneath … in the above, the cab floor’s even with the guy on the right’s shoes.

I’m working on obtaining some possible prototype information, etc … and will post more when I find out.

Matthew (OV)

USA Trains 44 ton model looks shorter than the CMP model pictured above.

(http://www.gbdb.info/data/media/110/USAT_R22157_44TON_Switcher_1200sm.jpg)

GE also made 60, 65 and 80 ton center cabs which were a little longer.
The prototype below is an 80 ton #7896 Brooklyn Army Base 1947

(http://members.trainweb.com/bedt/wardeadreturn/btwardeadreturn21a.jpg)

80 ton

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/5a/USAX1663_FtEustis_2010.jpg)

Looks the same as the 80 ton above. They also made them with a single headlight.

(http://ogrforum.ogaugerr.com/fileSendAction/fcType/0/fcOid/20717517856252427/filePointer/20717517856252446/fodoid/20717517856252440/imageType/LARGE/inlineImage/true/ge%20center%20cab%20diesel.jpg)

GE 125 ton. 4 of these were built for Ford.

(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-RpgNOR8A2YQ/Uw2Zq1td2xI/AAAAAAAALlA/C2lKzKK4Hg4/w542-h248-no/ford.jpg)

Andrew

To me, this looks like a 1:2xxxx (where x>24) model of an 80 or 90 tonner. I say that from my experience with both the model and the prototype. Only real layout difference is most of those have end walkways, and different style steps.

I had really hoped someone had found a prototype of this sort of locomotive on 3’ gauge trucks (which, as I understand it is not too farfetched… see the Hawaii examples of the military version on 3’ trucks) and made a 1:20.3 version of it. I’m betting if I had a 1:29 figure to stand on the walkway it’d look about right.

So … standard gaugers … anyone want a unique, kinda cool looking locomotive? I’d love to minimize my mistake and get something that really IS 1:20.3 like the rest of my stuff.

Matthew (OV)

I’ve got the Bachman version that I need to backdate to the 1930s version. Are there any pictures?

I like the “grills” on the Ford version.

Durango & Silverton 3’ gauge 80 tonner.

These 2 are interesting GE 44 ton.
They have the steps but no front walkway.

“Built as USAF 1237 and assigned to Hill Air Force Base. It is a modified version of General Electric’s standard 44-ton design, with a shorter frame and lower cab, reportedly to allow transport overseas in ships.”

http://theunionstation.org/museums-2/utah-state-railroad-museum/spencer-s-eccles-rail-center

(http://theunionstation.org/wp-content/uploads/switchutahcent12371.jpg)
(http://theunionstation.org/wp-content/uploads/GEswitchUSAF.jpg)
Andrew

Could this be one similar to the CMP model? The cab windows are still a little different and the grill does not look as sloped though.
It does appear to be longer looking how the steps line up with the axlebox compared to other pictures taken on a similar angle.

(http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/usaf1243.jpg)
Andrew

Well … I thought we had a line on the fellow who designed this thing, but I heard back, and he didn’t. (I have an e-mail from CMP circa 2008 when I first inquired about them that said he did. General concensus is that this is somewhere between 1:22.5 and 1:29 depending on what prototype you think it most resembles for a GE 44-90 ton centercab (45 tonner model excluded…)

So, if anyone’s interested … CMP isn’t taking it back, so I’ve got to sell it myself … it’s not going to work on my railroad but only because it’s too small for my 1:20.3 stuff. I’ll take money, of course, but will also consider interesting 1:20.3 trade ideas too.

Stupid question… Didn’t they offer this in multiple scales? Could they simply have shipped a 1/2* version in a 1/20 box by accident?

The Arcade & Attica dieselized with a phase 1 in 1941 and acquired a second one after a wreck in 1947. They then purchased a 65ton version second hand in 1988. The Middletown & Hummelstown had two, but I can’t recall their lineage. All five were very similar in size. The main difference between the 44 & 65 ton versions was the Steel plate that made the deck. 1/4 inch grew to 1.5-2 inch thickness.

Where are you guys getting 33’ for the length of a 44-tonner? The sources I’ve found have it at 28’ 4" wide, 12’ tall, and 9’ 6" wide. http://www.trainweb.org/DC/44Tonner.htm These dimensions are within an inch or two compared to Bachmann’s HO model. (USA Train’s specs have the length of theirs at 12 5/8". If that’s over the couplers, then it’s pretty close to 28’ over the body.)

In 1;20.3, that’d be 16 3/4" wide by 7" tall by 5.6" wide. The CMP model would then be very close in terms of length, but woefully low and narrow. Comparing the dimensions of the CMP model to the prototype 44-tonner (dimensions sourced as above), I get a scale length of 1:19, width of 1:27, and height of 1:23.

The stock 1:20.3 Bachmann 45-tonner is 15" long, about 7" tall, and 6" wide. The B’mann 45-tonner is based on a different prototype than the 44-tonner, so one would expect to find some differences, but the height and width are very similar.

When I “downsized” my B’mann loco to a more “reasonable” 1:20.3 size, I looked at average proportions of similarly-sized 3’ gauge center cabs from various manufacturers.

The resulting model was 15" long, 6.25" tall, and 5" wide. That’s a scale 25’ 4" long, 8’ 5" wide, and 10’ 7" tall.

Comparing the height of my model to the CMP model, its very similar. The difference–proportionally–is that there are no steps into my cab–the floor of the cab is the same level as the floor on the running boards (Common on Whitcomb and Davenport locos.)

The other questionable dimension relative to the CMP model being true 1:20.3 is the width. At 4.25" wide, that’s a width of only 7’ 2"–very narrow for a 3’ gauge locomotive, especially a modern diesel such as this.

Granted, none of this is anything that can’t be fixed by a razor saw, but it’s a lot easier to cut up a $100 plastic B’mann 45-tonner, both in a physical and spiritual sense.

Later,

K

Kevin, but there was the prototype shortened for export with the trucks nearly all the way to under the end beam which are the specs on the page you linked to for the 28ft model and another with a longer frame like the CMP model where the trucks are set back. Could this be the discrepancy with the other measurement of 33ft? That makes the CMP model about length 1:23, width 1:27, and height 1:23.
Maybe the CMP model is close to 1/2" scale except the width is a little narrower, perhaps so it would still fit in with 1:29.
In 1:24 the width would correctly scale to 4.75" rather than 4.25".
It seems like the model is anything but 1:20.3 scale as advertised.

There maybe some marketing objective to this. Near 1:24 scale but narrower for 1:29 with 1:20.3 on the box! Kind of suits everyone but… Now there is one for sale because it is not what was advertised!

(http://img593.imageshack.us/img593/533/age44tondropcablocomoti.jpg)

(http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/usaf1243.jpg)

(http://freightsheds.largescalecentral.com/users/slatecreek/44ton1.jpg)

Andrew

Matt, do you have an Annie to compare it to? Or an LGB #50? Does the Slate Creek offer Lay-away…