Large Scale Central

flop stub switch?

Track and Trestles
#1

OK,

So since I got the bender from Greg and I had some left over rail from the MIK build and I got my loco mostly done except touch up and a radio issue, I decided to start making a turnout for the indoor. I like the idea of stub switches since there a bit different and have that backwoods feel. And So far for a first attempt I think it is going swimmingly. But there is an inherent problem with them (its my understanding this is why they were disallowed in 1:1) and that is if not properly thrown coming into the switch from one of the divergent legs it will derail. no points to push over.

So for the majority of the indoor this will be only an issue for the careless because when operating you should be throwing your switches. But there are two reversing loops for continuous running. Outdoors I was going to make flop switches that allow the train to run continuous without messing with switching the turnouts. Thanks to ideas here this is easily done. But since there are no point rail to flop on a stub switch this can’t be done. Or can it? Anyone have any ideas on how to make a stub switch align correctly, automatically?

I am guessing not and if I have to I will make regular flop turnouts for the two reversing loops.

#2

Devon,

What on Earth gave you the idea that stub switches were not allowed on 1:1? Where do you think the idea came from? BTW, they’re (notice the spelling) still in use on some of the old narrow gauge RR’s like the EBT.

#3

Probably meant disallowed on main lines or the Class 1 railroads.

No way to “flop” Devon.

Greg

#4

No I knew they WERE on 1:1 railroads and that is why I am making them. What I said or meant to say was they are no longer allowed. Some odd ball stuff may still exist, but not generally used. My understanding is the derailment issue made them obsolete, but I can’t swear to that. Of course I am no expert at all on the issue. I thought I read that somewhere.

#5

Devon Sinsley said:

No I knew they WERE on 1:1 railroads and that is why I am making them. What I said or meant to say was they are no longer allowed. Some odd ball stuff may still exist, but not generally used. My understanding is the derailment issue made them obsolete, but I can’t swear to that. Of course I am no expert at all on the issue. I thought I read that somewhere.

I understand that the “gap” caused excessive wear to the wheels.

#6

Sounds as good a reason as any.

#7

Devon, if the switch rails were electrically isolated, then when there was current draw on the switch rails, you could use that to throw the switch. It would have to be electrical, using a current sensing type system, so it would not be a flop over, it would be a solenoid/motor/servo over, but it could be done.

Or you could use infrared sensors, so the switch would “flop over” for cars that do not draw current. This kind of wiz bag thing would be child’s play for someone like Dave Bodner to cobble together.

#8

or you could a switch stand and throw them manually…

#9

Ken, Devon was asking about making them automatically flop over, like a flop or spring type set of points.

#10

(http://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-cool.gif)when in doubt read the title of the thread

#11

David Maynard said:

Ken, Devon was asking about making them automatically flop over, like a flop or spring type set of points.

I think he knows by now that it would be rather difficult and complicated to do that. I was showing a simple solution.

And I won’t even dignify Mr. Elmassion’s comment with a reply.

#12

Seems like there should be a way to do it. Hmmm…

#13

Todd either it would require some elctro-mechanical intervention, or a clever mechanical device to move the rails in advance of the locomotive or car. I am sure it can be done, its just how to do it.

#14

OK, I don’t know how practical, but it goes something like this:

Assuming a reverse loop and we go through the same way each time (let’s assume to the left).

A light spring/weight/whatever holds the stub rails on the left stop so the train enters the loop without problem.

A thin strip of copper/brass is soldered to the inside edge of the outside return railhead a ways back from the break in the rails such that when the train returns, it now rides on this strip of brass as well as the railhead.

The other end of the brass strip is soldered to the web of the appropriate “stub rail.” This side of the brass strip is a cut to sit lower than the other side.

When the train returns, the wheel flange catches the brass and as the wheel approaches the break it pulls the stub rail over with it bouncing back as each wheel crosses the break. Actually, the weight and presence of the train on that section would keep it from bouncing back.

#15

Todd, ok, that is interesting. And since Devon is talking about using battery power, and aluminum rails, that just might work.

#16

OK first I realized when asking that it wasn’t likely but thought maybe I was missing something. It needs to be automatic. At least the two on the reversing loops for continuous running. All the rest can have throws. It is not worth the trouble to do an electronic mechanical device It has to be easy. This isn’t a feat to see if I can. I don’t mind those projects either but not this time. Unless someone comes up with an easy unthought of solution a regular flop switch is fine.

#17

I just saw Todd’s that is interesting

#18

When will it be done and will you post pictures of the progress Devon ?

#19

Actually, for that matter, the brass strip web wouldn’t need to soldered at the web of the stub rail, and could simply push it over. This could also alleviate binding.

Or, make the return outter rail pivot, like other turnouts. Attach a tab/strip at the web to engage web of the stub rail. Let the train push the pivot rail out in its travels and in doing so, it moves the tab that pushes the stub rail out.

Could be lots of variations on this theme.

#20

Rooster,

I have the rails pretty much laid out. I need to do the stub rails. This is a very interesting project. 1) I have never made a turnout 2) this is a Vic inspired afair so it is curved throughout the diverging line which is alone a challenge 3) it’s a stub switch 4) I am not using any sort of premade frog. This could be an epic failure. Oh an not to mention I am going to do it own hewn log ties. I am not asking to much for a first build am I?.

It will either work or it won’t. There will be pictures. I am liking where Todd is going that will be fun to play with. Oh and the curved divergent track is a 30" diameter. There is some issues but I am working through it.