Large Scale Central

Family rules

General Discussion
#1

The LGB Family adopted, or should I say contracted;-) a set of rules by replacing
the "competitive manufacturers name" with LGB. Since I am not terribly familiar with these "competitive" forums, I wonder which forums rules served as a pattern.
I checked a few suspects but I cannot find anything even remotely close to this.
Could anyone help? Best wishes from Tokyo, Zubi
PS I hope you are herewith encouraged to join, of course! You might enjoy it;-)

Dear All,

This is a notice that we will vigorously enforce our stated rules and purpose of this forum.

“GENERAL DISCUSSION OF LGB AND OTHER PRODUCTS FROM LGB OF AMERICA” AND “DISCUSSION OF OTHER MANUFACTURERS IS NOT ALLOWED”.

This is a private forum for LGB Trains and our intent is to provide a self help forum, where experienced users of our products can provide practical tips to other LGB Trains hobbyists.

If you have a problem with us, not necessarily the product, take it to private e-mail to us or to a public forum that thrives on such controversy to bring more hits for their advertisers. We’re not against your doing so and encourage you to criticize our performance elsewhere. Just don’t do it on this forum as we want to encourage the self help aspect of the forum to make the hobby more enjoyable to our customers.

Even if we do not make a competitive product, such as soundboards, all discussion on the merits of one over the other is inappropriate here where the makers cannot answer themselves in a fair environment. We will allow installation help, but not personal choices of one maker over the other.

(paragraph requiring actual names being used was deleted)

We have the ability to lock, delete and ban posts that do not meet the spirit of the above and will use these capabilities. I realize some people like to see what the limits are and challenge these limits, but this is a private forum and we can’t spend time parsing arbitrary rules. We know what is inappropriate when we see it and will act accordingly.

For most of you there will be no change in the forum, but for a few the forum will change it’s scope.

A follow up question resulted in the following response:

I will offer you this guidance:

If you feel your post is “on the edge of violating the rules”, then don’t post it.

If you have “mixed feelings about commenting”, then don’t comment.

Do we want you to encourage people to go elsewhere to post their questions? No.

Do we want you to advise people whether or not they have made a terrible choice in regards to another manufacturers product? Of course not.

If we (the Forum Moderators) feel an innappropriate question or problem has been posted, we will act accordingly.

That’s as clear as we can make it, these should be obvious.

Thank you for your cooperation.

#2

Ah, yes, the “Polk Limitation of Discussion” rules.
Ended up with LXX or UXX or BXXXXXXX.
Typical of McMoron.
He wanted a rule here where he could forbid CERTAIN PEOPLE from answering his dissertations.

All he really ever wanted in life, it would seem, is absolute control and the position of “moderator”.

Looks like he got his wish.

#3

Jerry, the only rules I care about are the ones Bob makes - and he doesn’t make many.

I like this forum because most participants aren’t uni-dimensional. There’s more to them than merely trains. Sure, trains are what bring us together, but they’re not what define us as human beings.

Sometimes the discussions that wander off-topic are the most intriguing. I wouldn’t miss them for anything!

Gotta ask - your name sounds Polish. What sort of work are you doing in Tokyo?

#4

Dear Curmee, THANKS! Aristo was my first suspect of course, but the rules on their forum are quite sensible. So I must have missed something. Best wishes from Tokyo, Zubi

Aristo-Craft Trains Forum Rules
October 28, 2006

Registration to this forum is free! However, we do insist that you abide by the rules and policies detailed below.

Although the administrators and moderators of the Aristo-Craft Trains Forum will attempt to keep all objectionable messages off this forum, it is impossible for us to review all messages.

This bulletin board is for the use of Aristo-Craft customers to seek technical support for Aristo-Craft products. We also encourage board members to converse with their fellow railroaders from around the world.

However, we have a few basic rules which we request that you follow:

  • Posts that involve foul language, personal attacks, and other language which is deemed inappropriate is strictly prohibited.

  • We require the use of real names for your User ID. Aliases are not acceptable.

  • Discussion of other manufacturers is not allowed on our bulletin board.

  • For Sale / Wanted posts are prohibited.

  • No excessive board spamming! No posting to increase your post count.

  • No advertising of web sites for monetary gain.

  • Signature size should be at around 200x200 pixels, preferably 100x100, and under 20 kilobytes.

By agreeing to these rules, you warrant that you will not post any messages that are obscene, vulgar, sexually-oriented, hateful, threatening, or otherwise violative of any laws.

The owners of the Aristo-Craft Trains Forum reserve the right to remove, edit, move or close any thread for any reason. People who break these rules may be subject to suspension or banning from this board.

#5
Dave Healy said:
Jerry, the only rules I care about are the ones Bob makes - and he doesn't make many.

I like this forum because most participants aren’t uni-dimensional. There’s more to them than merely trains. Sure, trains are what bring us together, but they’re not what define us as human beings.

Sometimes the discussions that wander off-topic are the most intriguing. I wouldn’t miss them for anything!

Gotta ask - your name sounds Polish. What sort of work are you doing in Tokyo?


Dave, I removed Jerry’s name from my original posting because I do not want to give any reasons
for personal attacks of course, in particular in likely absence of the victim;-) Yes, my name is Polish,
sorry for stil not filling the personal info - I work as a research professor at Tokyo University and
enjoy life in Japan. Today it started snowing in Tokyo. A pretty unusual sight!! Best wishes, Zubi

#6

Please note this line
“GENERAL DISCUSSION OF LGB AND OTHER PRODUCTS FROM LGB OF AMERICA” AND “DISCUSSION OF OTHER MANUFACTURERS IS NOT ALLOWED”.
What`s left?? Mind boggles;-), Zubi

#7

I am understanding of a dedicated forum intent on discussing a specific manufacturer’s products. The problem arises when the meglomaniac moderating the site is not only biassed but has an axe to grind. In a real world if he were a kid no one would play with him. By offering a specific site he attracts only the attention he wants.

I am in support of the Aristo forum and consider the moderators tolerant of criticism of their product, once the facts are laid out before them. Even the admiring fans are slowly realising that all is not perfect in their ‘perfect’ world.

I feel that for a forum site to be specifically oriented to a particular manufacturer, then the moderator should be not personally aligned with the product name, ensuring impartiality. One such site had such a moderator, however, I feel that circumstances were such that the usually friendly responses became fewer and now curt replies are the order of the day. Without blowing any trumpets, the moderation style shown on this site is first rate. Bob allows a manner of discussion on varied topics, only stepping in when respondents, in an argument, cannot settle it themselves. This form of moderation treats the member as an adult and does not try the heavy handed approach used on other sites, where little brush fires are quickly put out just in case they become a ‘firestorm’.

A forum thrives on discussion and as the family forum will eventually find out, limiting discussion to simply one brand of manufacturer combined with an omnipotent (in his own lifetime) moderator is a recipe for disaster. The 1000-year Reich lasted but a few years due insanity, or was that meglomania.

#8
Tim Brien said:
..., where little brush fires are quickly put out just in case they become a 'firestorm'.
Tim, science teaches us that this is a recipe for disaster. Little brush fires, or relaxing small local stresses in the system, help to keep the system in sub-critical regime and break the connectivity which otherwise, one day will lead to system-wide catastrophy. Best wishes, Zubi
#9

Zubi,
I am in total agreeance. A brush fire is a pressure vent for a possible seething disaster. By allowing the brushfire to burn at its self determined rate then left unchecked it will follow its own course and burnout. A heavy handed attempt to extinguish the flames will cause a backlash with the resultant aftermath a true disaster. Sometimes it is prudent to simply stand back and monitor the progress. When it is apparent that more fuel is being added to the fire and every chance it will spiral out of control, then action is taken. Stepping on toes which is the favoured moderation style of one such forum not only leads to sore toes but hostile resentment of the personality, as the toe stepping is generally biassed.

#10
Tim Brien said:
I am understanding of a dedicated forum intent on discussing a specific manufacturer's products. ... I am in support of the Aristo forum and consider the moderators tolerant of criticism of their product, once the facts are laid out before them.
Tim, I am definitely not suggesting that manufacturer specific forums are a bad idea. To the contrary. However, I seem to notice a difference between "focused" and "biased". I am glad that you have good experience with the Aristo forum. I have none, since I am not interested in standard gauge. But I have a pretty positive experience with Bachmann forum where I have even seen Bachmann himself recommending products by LGB and Accucraft. It is my humble opinion that a good product will defend itself, and as in the above illustration, it may in fact it may even benefit from suggesting complementary products by "competitive" brands. I think this issue boils down to some elementary honesty, which some do and some simply do not have. Best wishes, Zubi
#11

Hi Zubi,

Well its become like Scientology, only the highest most faithfull are welcome beyond the locked doors of the visitors center. The Aristo forum is one thing, but they do allow other products to be mentioned if its relavent to the discussion, as for the Family forum, they have had a one product biased from the start but this is getting absurd, did anyone catch this sentence?

“…If you have a problem with us, not necessarily the product, take it to private e-mail to us or to a public forum that thrives on such controversy to bring more hits for their advertisers. We’re not against your doing so and encourage you to criticize our performance elsewhere…”

or this one:

“…Even if we do not make a competitive product, such as soundboards, all discussion on the merits of one over the other is inappropriate here where the makers cannot answer themselves in a fair environment. We will allow installation help, but not personal choices of one maker over the other…”

Got a bitch? go take it elsewhere, dont like the way something performs? get lost, like one product over the other, leave the room, want to know whats best for your application? go jump in a lake, it all amounts to two words:

GO AWAY

How are you supposed to discuss what product is best for your situation? or how to solve a problem that may be related to a repair used on another product?

Wow, I guess the LGB Family site has finally been reduced to the mutual masterbation society. Your only welcome if your stroking the product. Sorry if anyone feels thats a rather graphic description but jeeeez, its pretty accurate.

I said it before though, as long as the gushers STAY over their where they are happy, thats fine with me, had enough of the koolaid drinkers already, let them stay there, happy.

I only hope that if the site finally implodes, that the faithfull don’t try coming back to here, or MLS, or GR, sheesh!

#12
Tim Brien said:
The 1000-year Reich lasted but a few years due insanity, or was that meglomania.
Remember, it was called Germania, with the emphisis on the "mania" :O :D
#13

I have a question. If I were to go to that other site and ask how do I get a non-LGB loco to work with all my LGB stuff so that switches will work off the mag trips would I be tossed out?

I run a mix of LGB, Aristo, Beckmann, USA, ect on my layout. I’m guessing that is the same for most of us and most people in this hobbie. I am not going to that site to questions answerd. I will stick with this site. You all seem a lot nicer and much more open to helping out everyone.

#14
geoff george said:
I will stick with this site. You all seem a lot nicer and much more open to helping out everyone.
Nah, we just like your dog!
#15
Tim Brien said:
Zubi, ... Stepping on toes which is the favoured moderation style of one such forum not only leads to sore toes but hostile resentment of the personality, as the toe stepping is generally biassed.
Tim, this captures the essence of the phenomenon. I could not have said it better. In addition, I believe both sides loose in such a scenario, also the said forum, even if they do not realise this, certain expertise and philosophy is no longer there. As for resentment, I personally try not cultivate it. I (optimistically) tend to think it is only virtual;-) - I hope, if I met the relevant persons in real life we would be playing trains, but perhaps on separate tracks;-), Best wishes, Zubi
#16
geoff george said:
I have a question. If I were to go to that other site and ask how do I get a non-LGB loco to work with all my LGB stuff so that switches will work off the mag trips would I be tossed out?

I run a mix of LGB, Aristo, Beckmann, USA, ect on my layout. I’m guessing that is the same for most of us and most people in this hobbie. I am not going to that site to questions answerd. I will stick with this site. You all seem a lot nicer and much more open to helping out everyone.


Geoff, you’ll find that a majority of us mix manufactuers pretty indiscriminately. I own more Bachmann stuff cause they were cheap and easy to come by when I got started, and their products are easy to work with, and once upon a time, getting parts to build with was great! There is a faction of the railroad hobby called ‘collectors’ and a faction of that known as “Red Box Zealots”. Now, no flames, I’m not implying that one person who owns mostly LGB cause thats what they like, and what they are into. Its the RBZs who think everthing produced by LGB is a religious icon, and must be treated with reverence, they tend to have an idea that LGB is it, and if you own anything else you are slime not worthy of gracing their footpath. You will also note, that these types are generally the folks who’s idea of ‘modeling’ is to throw money at the hobby. I’ve always thought of this as being some sort of copensation at something. They get their happy feeling from being superior to others. This is the kinda folks ya deal with at the Moderator level over yonder…

#17

Well, I looked today and can’t seem to find the exact thread and post on the family forum where all this is supposed to have originated. Provided the original post is accurate, then the moderator of that other forum is doing the forum no favours at all. Criticism of products is meant to be constructive - after all - that’s how manufacturers are supposed to learn from their mistakes. The stifling of any discussion would seem to be counter productive. All views are valid even if you disagree with them. I doubt anyone has ever come up with a better way to kill off a forum other than pulling the plug out of the server. My 2c.
Les

#18

Kinda reminds me of the SAG awards in Hollywood…nothin but a “Mutual Admiration Society”…

#19

I have always been of the mindset that the more input you get the better the outcome is to be.

#20

Sadly, the “rules” reflect the mentality that the LGB club has had for decades. I recall a good while back sitting in on the general membership meeting at a BTO club convention when they were debating whether to limit the focus of the club specifically to LGB or include emerging brands into the fold and be–as the name at the time seemed to indicate–open to all “big trains.” Alas, by that time, there were more in the club intent on collecting LGB than actually running and modifying them, so the die was cast and the group lost a lot of members as a result.

You get what you ask for.

Later,

K