Sorry…re read… not sold on trying to correct what was originally stated and it’s over as far as I’m concerned…
Now we were talking about elevated versus ground level roadbed …I personally have both but understand the repercussions of either.
OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOKAAAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYYY now that we’re back on “TRACK” …
whadaya think of my idea ,Steve?? possible town/industry buildings on each of the long runs???
i’m thinking i could do one side for steam service…water tower…oil shed (for dad’s oil burning white pass mikado) …coaling/firewood station…
and the other side a bit more modern…sand tower…in general ,more modern ,to go with the diesel engines…
Richard Hiester said:
OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOKAAAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYYY :) now that we're back on "TRACK" ....whadaya think of my idea ,Steve?? possible town/industry buildings on each of the long runs???
i’m thinking i could do one side for steam service…water tower…oil shed (for dad’s oil burning white pass mikado) …coaling/firewood station…
and the other side a bit more modern…sand tower…in general ,more modern ,to go with the diesel engines…
I like it. Just remember, the only one that you have to please, is yourself.
Thanks ,Steve…
i really do enjoy building different things ,and think two different areas will give me enough variety to keep me interested for quite a while…
now i think it’s time to try to design some sort of benchwork/boxes that will give me support and longevity…definitely P/T wood ,for its durability…but i think i’d like to avoid dirt (like richard used inside his boxes) maybe using a styrofoam sheet as a base/filler ,then put sand and ballast over that…
i’ll have to visit the local home centers ,and see what building materials are easily accessible…
Richard,
Before you pass on dirt as a filler, you should consider the increased cost of the styrofoam. If you are worried about moisture caused rot, don’t. Built the way Richard and I (and probably many others) have built, the water just drains right through. That might not happen with the styrofoam. You are going to use natural scenery anyway, so why not…
Besides, by using dirt, you might be able to use natural ground cover, with drip irrigation. I plan to give this a try this summer. I’ll probably mix some vermiculite to the soil to retain some moisture.
Richard Hiester said:
Thanks ,Steve...i really do enjoy building different things ,and think two different areas will give me enough variety to keep me interested for quite a while…
now i think it’s time to try to design some sort of benchwork/boxes that will give me support and longevity…definitely P/T wood ,for its durability…but i think i’d like to avoid dirt (like richard used inside his boxes) maybe using a styrofoam sheet as a base/filler ,then put sand and ballast over that…
i’ll have to visit the local home centers ,and see what building materials are easily accessible…
Richard,
What are you gonna do about drainage?
I’m guessing on alot of this right now ,but this is my train of thought…
somewhere in the LSC-Everything pages i found an article talking about roadbed…the fellow levels his ground…then uses blue foam for roadbed…attatching the track to the foam by running screws through the track and foam ,and into plywood squares under the foam…
so i’m picturing boxes…with thick blue styrofoam sheet in place of the hardware cloth ,weedblock fabric ,stringers (the ladder assembly the track is attatched to) ,and dirt…allowing me to place my track anywhere i please on the foam surface…and then attatch it through the foam ,using the scew and plywood plate method…
i’m also thinking more along the lines of an “outdoor railroad” rather than an “outdoor GARDEN railroad” ,as i have no skills what-so-ever to help me with growing things…
picture a shallow box…foam liner on the bottom…track and building foundations…then a 1/2’ or so of sand and grit as roads and ballast…
so that is where i am…
now if i could find a sturdy ,but porous base to replace the foam…
i know drainage is key ,but cannot get around it…beyond cutting holes in the foam (maybe with a hole saw) and covering the holes with weedblock fabric…or even cover the whole foam sheet with weedblock…
it’s like i want foam pegboard
Richard your talking about having your layout on a raised bench right? If so why not build it like a wall studs ever 12 or 16 inches or what ever works for you and put down hardware cloth and screen? all the drainage you need and the screen will hold your sand and ballast.
That’s what i’m leaning toward ,Geoff…Raised Benchwork…
but i was only looking at page #1 of Richard Smith’s explanation and i was a little bit lost on some of the procedure…then last night i thought to change the number in the address bar…and all of a sudden ,i found pages #2 and #3 …
so now i think i have a much better idea of what he did…how he did it…and some of the reasoning…
now i just have to figure out how deep my boxes would need to be…and whether or not i want to try the ladder mount system…
Good luck. I’m sure you will keep us posted as to how it all comes along. It sounds good so far.
Richard,
Best wishes on whatever method you use. If you have any questions about how I did the benchwork on the POC please feel free to ask.
Just a couple of notes in case to add into your figuring and assessments:
-
My ladder roadbed is 1.5" deep cedar strips mostly nominal 5/16" thick. This (1.5") is the thickness of the 2x6 boards I cut the strips from and provides 1.5"+ depth for dirt and ballast, etc. For very tight curves, which I don’t have, you could use two or three 1/8" strips laminated together. The thinner strips would have much greater flexibility and using multiple on the tight curves would have as much strength as the thicker ones used on more gradual curves and straightaways.
-
I use cedar rather than composite materials because of its structural strength. Even with dirt and ballast the roadbed is supported primarily at the connection points to the benchwork joists. I would question too whether anything less than 1.5" depth for the roadbed would properly support the track to avoid the roller coaster affect between joists. Note that the hardware cloth (screen) and its load will sag under the weight and require a small addition of material on top over time until an optimum level is found. That’s why I use well supported road bed and “foundations” for the structures so they are not affected.
Thanks ,Geoff…and Thank You ,Richard…
but it looks like the whole thing needs to go on the back burner for now…
it’s warming up and i’m having issues with the neighborhood kids throwing things over the fence…heavy stuff like footballs,basketballs,soccer balls…not really deliberate,but i don’t want to run the risk of building something,only to have it smashed before i get anywhere near done…
will have to come up with a roofed area…or bag the idea completely,for right now…
i will say i really am glad this happened before i started,even though it really has become a major hurdle…
Question for those with raised framework layouts.
Do you have any problems with weed growth under the framework? What about critters? Bugs? Spider? Hornets?
Vic, my experience:
Weed growth under the benchwork is minimal and easily mowed down. I would imagine this would vary according to location and soil fertility, etc., of course But a weed wacker makes short work of anything there. Individual weeds sometimes sprout up on top as birds or wind will occasionally drop seeds there. They are easily plucked off roots and all and are negligible in number.
No problems with hornets or bugs in general but spiders are the same on a raised layout as on a ground level except they are much easier to spot and remove. Spider web removal is a constant job as they seem to multiply like…spiders. Mostly just lil’ fellers here though at least on the layout.
Unwanted weeds and spiders aren’t a big deal but they do require constant action to keep them under control. Debris such as leaves, needles are only a fraction of what I had at ground level as the winds and water that piled them up in quantity on the ground blows many of them off the benchwork. Some does still accumulate against structures but once again with raised benchwork there’s no stooping or crawling around on the ground. Being under an especially dirty tree is a problem no matter how the RR is built though.
Richard Smith said:Tell me about it. Over half my layout is on the ground under conifers. This can be painful :D
Being under an especially dirty tree is a problem no matter how the RR is built though.
Thanks Richard, Ive been eyeing the back corner of the yard here and a pile of PT lumber left over from yard remodels…
Richard Smith said:
Vic, my experience:Weed growth under the benchwork is minimal and easily mowed down. I would imagine this would vary according to location and soil fertility, etc., of course But a weed wacker makes short work of anything there. Individual weeds sometimes sprout up on top as birds or wind will occasionally drop seeds there. They are easily plucked off roots and all and are negligible in number.
No problems with hornets or bugs in general but spiders are the same on a raised layout as on a ground level except they are much easier to spot and remove. Spider web removal is a constant job as they seem to multiply like…spiders. Mostly just lil’ fellers here though at least on the layout.
Unwanted weeds and spiders aren’t a big deal but they do require constant action to keep them under control. Debris such as leaves, needles are only a fraction of what I had at ground level as the winds and water that piled them up in quantity on the ground blows many of them off the benchwork. Some does still accumulate against structures but once again with raised benchwork there’s no stooping or crawling around on the ground. Being under an especially dirty tree is a problem no matter how the RR is built though.
What he said.
Sometimes I have to wake the dog. It’s shady under there. 
Mine STARTED at ground level… but will be a bit over knee high at the other end. I knew the ground sloped, but not that much.
To ME the garden is as, or perhaps more important than, the railway. ymmv