Large Scale Central

Elevated Benchwork Versus Ground Level Layouts?

Track and Trestles
#1

my father and i were at the show in york yesterday ,and the variety you find in the working layouts always interests me…both are great ,but i wonder why folks choose one over the other…

i saw Bob has a thread talking about raising his layout from ground level to low benchwork ,set on legs sitting on blocks…

my dad has a big house and no yard space ,so he is working indoors and on benchwork…i have a very small house ,but a yard twice the size of my house ,so i was thinking of something elevated ,but outdoors…something to get us up out of the dirt ,but still allow us to maybe put in a few bridges (from bench to bench) to give variety…

Thoughts?? Visions??? Reasons ,Pro and Con???

Rich

#2

Rich
I think one of the biggest reasons for using raised gardens or benchwork is the fact as we age it gets harder and harder to get up and down to the ground. Especially the getting up part. My backyard is on a slope so the only way to get a reasonably flat area was to put a retaining wall along the front and then terrace the area. The rear part of the layout is get down on your knees territory but the front is raised anywhere from 12" on one end to 3’ on the other end. Much easier to work on. Also trains look much better when viewed from track level. There have been railroads built on almost every method conceivable and they all have their good and bad points.
Ron

#3

I like ground level for a few reasons:

  • easier to expand layout
  • need less dirt/fill
  • I was never a fan of elevated track on boards etc… I like a more realistic look. If I were to elevate it I would do a raised garden bed using dirt. Again it takes a lot of dirt and then you also have to build a retaining wall. Making it more costly.
#4
Ron Spencer said:
Rich I think one of the biggest reasons for using raised gardens or benchwork is the fact as we age it gets harder and harder to get up and down to the ground. Especially the getting up part. My backyard is on a slope ...
My situation as well (oooo, my aching knees) (and back). I plan (eventually, when I get a round tuit and hard cash) to do a bit of ground-level work at the top of the slope. This summer's work is going to be getting track down on the main line and watching something run. I'm using track power with Aristo TEs: all 120v devices and controllers are going to be on high shelves in my shed, well away from small and curious hands; the only wiring out to the layout will be low-voltage. First order of business this spring (once the ground thaws and I get some time) is to trench in conduit to run wires from shed to layout ... give them a bit of protection from errant shovels, etc. (Yes, Fred et al., battery/RC is in the cards ... if ever I get dealt a winning hand.)
#5

Elevated is easy to maintain . This is number one as you age . Seated in a chair you are looking at the side of the train , not from a airplane view . Not many things get broken elevated 3 feet up off the ground . And as Brian said , being able to reach everything , is why the center of the layout is open , and the max width is 4 feet , easy 2 foot reach anywhere on the layout , and oh yes , OAL size 16 ’ by 40 ’ , like a big 0 , with a walk thru 4 foot gap for access . a picture is worth a thousand words

(http://1stclass.mylargescale.com/dennispaulson/2007layout/westendlayout07.JPG)

switching while seated is nice

(http://1stclass.mylargescale.com/dennispaulson/4-28-07%20lgb%20eloks/Dennis%20at%20Inglenookresized.JPG)

OR , this is how it looks standing on the layout looking down , as if it were on the ground .

(http://1stclass.mylargescale.com/dennispaulson/4-28-07%20lgb%20eloks/From%20the%20air%201.JPG)

I know eye level is easier when switching . 12 years ago You have to do all the hard work up front to begin with .

(http://1stclass.mylargescale.com/dennispaulson/Dennis/The%20layouts%20begining.jpg)

#6

I think a ground level layout in raised beds is the best but can add a lot of work and expense to a layout plus you have to think about access points if there is depth to the layout (beyond arms reach). I prefer the look of a ground level layout especially when sitting on your butt and watching the trains run.

-Brian

#7

Thanks for the input ,Ron…this is a fair shot of the space i have to work with…

(http://hphotos-snc1.fbcdn.net/hs162.snc1/6048_1024860041652_1829798542_54338_6859835_n.jpg)

(http://hphotos-snc1.fbcdn.net/hs162.snc1/6048_1024858281608_1829798542_54334_504448_n.jpg)

it’s a clean (no dog poop) area in the center of my yard :slight_smile: made for my granddaughter’s swingset ,and whatever i’d like to do… dad helped assemble the interior fence ,and immediately said “you know i bet my trains could run on this railing” …i’m not so sure i want to use the fence rail ,simply because it isn’t level ,and because i don’t want dogs trying to rip the trains off the tracks… but i am thinking some benchwork inside might be a fair option…dad is in his 70’s and not as spry as he once was… and Thank You Too ,Shawn…ground level is not out-of-the-question…as the grade isn’t really that bad from end to end… i have thought maybe something done on pressure treated “rails” could be done too…something with very short stakes holding up up off the ground ,so it i level ,yet still ground level…

#8

WOW :slight_smile: did i get the replies while i was rambling on…

and very good opinions and ideas all around…Thank you ,All of You…

seems higher is better ,as a general rule ,as you get older…

so hmmmmmmmm…

the fence is roughly 3’ high…benchwork is less expensive and permanent than a raised bed…narrow benchwork would be easy to reach…

now the wheels are turning…

#9

You should read up on Richards Smiths RR and how he built it , it is how I would build if I ever do again , check this link for starters

http://1stclass.mylargescale.com/stevec/POC%20RR/POC_Main_Pt-1.pdf

#10

Thank you ,Dennis…that is the very same layout that comes to mind every time i think of outdoor benchwork…i used to be a member on that board,and remember when he first started on it…

i’m not sure though that i’d want to go hardware cloth…weedblock fabric…dirt…grit/ballast…like he did…

in fact…i’m wondering if you could go with thick blue styrofoam (i see one member uses it as roadbed,then glues ballast to it) and ballast over that…say create a box 2" deep…fasten track and such through the foam…then fill that last 1/2" with ballast…i’m betting if the ballast is simply poured in and leveled out ,it would stay…and give you drainage…maybe simply cut some round holes in the foam,say with a hole saw…cover those with weedblock fabric…and let the water drain through the ballast,and drip from the holes in the foam…

this really has me thinking…

#11

Richard,

There are advantages/disadvantages to both raised and ground level railroads. Mine is elevated but below are factors I considered before building the current POC railroad…

GROUND LEVEL:

  1. Can’t be beat if you like to just sit back and watch long trains snake through the terrain.
  2. Quicker to set up and get running usually.
  3. Easiest for a continuous loop.
  4. Easiest to move or add track.
  1. More susceptible to damage.
  2. A bit harder for operation due to stooping.
  3. Structures are mostly viewed by visitors from a roof top view looking downward. You don’t feel “in” the scene so much.
  4. More general debris such as leaves, etc.

RAISED BENCHWORK:

  1. Excellent for operation without bending over constantly and outstanding for point to point operation.
  2. Structures are viewed closer to eye level giving the observer the feeling of being in the scene.
  3. Pretty safe from damage. Of course a falling limb is a falling limb regardless but no animal or human foot damage.
  4. Much less debris accumulation as wind just blows much of it off. I estimate only 10 to 15% what I had at ground level in my location. Track maintenance is a breeze.
  5. Visiting live steamers enjoy the height advantage for “fiddling”.
  6. Low level photography much better and easier than laying down for ground level work.
  1. More work initially to set up and level benchwork.
  2. Benchwork must be customed not only for railroad but for location and climate as well. Do it wrong and a lot of work and money can be wasted.
  3. Track and scenery space is restricted by benchwork depth. 30" is maximum reach with 24" maximum recommended.
  4. Benchwork may not fit into an existing garden scene.

For what I want in a railroad benchwork fills my needs to a T but I urge you to try and visualize what you truly want and how you want to run/operate rather than to make easy/hard a criteria. Also any personal physical constraints. Do you love to get down and dirty in the garden or do you hate anything resembling yard work as I do? Certainly maintenance is cut markedly on benchwork assuming you’ve done your homework and constructed for your geographical area. Also consider the fact that ground level and benchwork can be used together to enjoy a bit of both worlds depending on the lay of the land in your yard.

There really is no right or wrong in choice here, only what best suits what you want to do.

#12

Here’s some shots of Richard’s layout I took when I visited. Very impressive.

(http://www.jbrr.com/assets/images/IMG_3784.JPG)

(http://www.jbrr.com/assets/images/IMG_3796.JPG)

(http://www.jbrr.com/assets/images/IMG_3762.JPG)

#13

IMHO, it depends on what your looking for, a GARDEN railroad or an OUTDOOR railroad. I prefer the garden type since I like the gardening end of it as much as the train operations. Richard’s listed the pluses and minuses of each so I won’t get into that. I’ve also run on both types of layouts and either one to me is enjoyable. Richard’s RR

(http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh58/rgseng/Oregon%202006/portorf04.jpg)

Fred Mill’s has what I call a combination of both:

(http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh58/rgseng/Invasion%202009/freds0024.jpg)

Mine:

(http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh58/rgseng/Operating%20session02/ops0024.jpg)

#14

I also enjoy the garden aspect of a ground level railroad. Although it can take many years to get the plants
established, the ground level RR becomes part of the landscape.
I don’t believe “the boss” would have approved elevated benchwork in the yard :smiley:
Ralph

#15

Thank you so much ,Everyone…for your input…ideas…insight…and most of all ,the pictures :slight_smile:

seeing the different layouts in operation…people actually using and enjoying them…has helped alot with my decision…

and i’ve determined…while my granddaughters might enjoy ground level ,my dad and i would prefer not crawling around on the ground…

so i guess now i need to start doing some measuring and drawing…

i’m thinking if i can stick with 8’ curves as my maximum ,and 6’ as my minimum ,then maybe i can fit in 2 main lines…and still have room to walk between the benches ,and reach everything…

#16

You know how fast the grandkids will grow ! This one of my grandsons 2 years ago at the age of 4 , and he is much taller now . Lots of play value when they can run them and load and unload the trains .

(http://1stclass.mylargescale.com/dennispaulson/Mason/Mason%205%2008%20layout%20b.JPG)

#17

You bet i know ,Dennis…this pic shows one of the few times Barbie and the teddy bears were NOT riding in Thomas’s coaches ,this past Christmas…

(http://photos-e.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/hs184.snc3/19173_1104234665968_1829798542_207828_4200860_n.jpg)

#18

I’m torn between building a “Garden Railroad,” and an “Outdoor Railroad.” So… I decided to have the best of both. My railroad is built on a piece of land that is raised in the center. At the outer edges, that RR is elevated on benchwork. As the ground rises to meet the track, it becomes more of a “Garden Railroad.” The ground then falls away, and the layout again becomes an “Outdoor Railroad.” This way, I can have a roundy-round loop in a garden, with the points of industry it serves being raised on benchwork for ease of operation. Here, you can see the benchwork, and the ground that comes up to meet it.

(http://www.lscdata.com/users/stevef/Bovil-1.jpg)

Another look.

(http://www.lscdata.com/users/stevef/Bovil-2.jpg)

The ground finally meeting the layout.

(http://www.lscdata.com/users/stevef/Bovil-5.jpg)

The Garden Railroad. Look in the background and you can see the ground falling away from the track to the raised benchwork.

(http://www.lscdata.com/users/stevef/Layout/Img_0023-1.jpg)

The roundy-round portion with Grampa’s Ichy-ban helper.

(http://www.lscdata.com/users/stevef/_forumfiles/CopyIMG_0102.JPG)

#19

Richard,

You might also consider a ‘Raised Garden Railroad’. Review the ‘Jordon Lot’ section on www.ecgrc.com to see what I mean.

Bob C.

#20

Looking good , and you have both sides of the track , raised and on the ground . What ever works well for the owner operator is the best .