Dang.
Are we keeping it secret for some reason?
This contest was a travesty…
Well, the contest was probably OK, but the results? Seriously?
I posted here: http://www.aristocraftforum.com/vbulletinforums/showthread.php?t=20274
I’ll probably be banned tomorrow. But I am SO tired of mediocre models being awarded a prize. And in this case it gives mediocre models a bad name… that model sucked.
BTW, Rooster, I need your email address. 
I totally agree Bruce with your statements. We will have to watch the Aristo forum to see what or if anything happens.
I wasn’t there. But after viewing the photos, was quite puzzled with the “Best in Show”.
Email conversations with several people confirmed my doubts.
Your post on the Aristo forum has only David Hill’s reply.
I guess people are afraid of Lewis banning them.
Had I been there, I’d join the Aristo forum and add my support to your topic
Ralph
My guess is that it was a “sympathy” vote…
Considering that three of the category signs had either spelling errors or blatant grammar issues, Im not surprised they mishandled something as complex as a contest. Anyone remember the bruhaha several years ago when Bart and I both entered the Motive Power category and lost to an RS3 repaint?
This is why I avoid contests. Once scratched a beautiful 93" wingspan Hs129b only to lose to a very expensive and completely pre-built/molded carbon-fiber P-51 (R/C aircraft). I spend a year building from scratch, the “winner” spent $5,000.00 on an ARF (almost ready to fly).
I have always built for the joy of building, contests took away some of that joy so I stopped entering. This example shows me why I still avoid them.
I wonder what the guy who won is thinking now? For a brief moment in history he had golden hands. Now, if he reads any of the forums, he feels like ….?
Going forward, maybe it is time to kill the contest.
It should be a show (no competition = no winners, no losers). Maybe event organizers could show their appreciation by providing good lighting and display the models on elevated tables or pedestals. Builders could soak up attention and recognition from their peers amidst the atmosphere of a gallery reception.
Geoff
Actually, the LSC Drag and Brag is exactly that, Geoff. A chance to display our models and chat about them with our friends.
That’s the one reason I stay overnight at an event that is only 2 hours from my house. We used to do the show on Saturday and drive up and back that day. Once we hooked up with the LSC folks, we started staying overnight.
This year we put the models on the table so they were easy to view. Here’s a shot before the crowd arrived.
(http://freightsheds.largescalecentral.com/users/thejoat/ECLSTS/IMG_0742.JPG)
Jean and I have decided that we’ll keep doing the overnight stay so we can do the Drag and Brag, but we’ll do the show on Friday and head home Saturday morning. The only reason we did the show on Saturday was for the contest.
Bob McCown said:
Anyone remember the bruhaha several years ago when Bart and I both entered the Motive Power category and lost to an RS3 repaint?
Sure do…
Bart had that 7/8ths scale Shay and I believe you had a boxcab.
Bruce, Exactly, and I bet nobody was crying at the drag-n-brag.
Now imagine the same thing at the fairgrounds on higher tables (for viewing when standing) with good spot lighting on the models.
Let’s fix this.
As a first time sponsor of the model contest at York, I left Saturday with a pain and pleasure feeling. The pleasure came from the wonderful models that were entered in the Scratch built category that I sponsored and in the contest as a whole. The pain, well read the reactions to the contest results.
I have entered models in dozens of contests over the years and have run into controversy a few times. These controversies generally led to a repair in the system rather than a scrapping or boycott of the contest.
I agree wholeheartedly with most of you that it is the recognition rather than the prize money that motivates us to work hard all year to produce the best that we are capable of. Of all of the contests that I have entered, ECLSTS is the only one that offered prize money. All the rest were ribbons or trophies.
I know for me that entering a contest pushed me to do better and go further. I generally left contests all fired up for next year regardless if I won or lost. The participation in the contest was very important to my skill building and motivation.
Like most of you I have been a model builder most of my life. In this day and age of the “outdoor Lionel” mentality of the large manufactures, model making is becoming a smaller, but still a very important, segment of the hobby. The RTR mentality only results in fewer choices of subjects. It is up to us model builders to illustrate the large gamut of subjects in model railroading. Shows and contests such as ECLSTS are major vehicles to promote and encourage this. I have never left a show or contest without a new idea for the next model.
What we need to do is fix this. The collective years, of experience we all have are hard to calculate but we hold the solution to the problem. I think that rather than back away from contests due to inequities, more of us should stand up and get involved. After all it is our hobby. For instance, I know personally that it is hard to find qualified judges to work a contest. Not because of skill level, but of “I rather not get involved in possible controversy or bad feelings”. All this attitude does is perpetuate the problem.
Competition is a basic drive in human nature. To make competition enjoyable and fair takes maturity, experience, knowledge and involvement. Knowing and meeting many of you I know the maturity, experience and knowledge is there. We need the involvement not the loss of an important contest.
I repeat it’s our hobby.
Alan Friedland
GREAT AMERICAN LOCOMOTION – THE GAL LINE
Reposting the ‘official rules thread’
http://www.aristocraftforum.com/vbulletinforums/showthread.php?t=20164
Was the ‘winning’ model a Aristo-Craft product?
Craig
Alan,
It was great to meet you guys at the “Timesaver”. Thank you for getting involved with this discussion. The contest does need qualified Judges, like those that judge the modeling contest at the Narrow Gauge Convention. I really think the problem lies with this being a Train Show and Flea Market, instead of a Convention.
Your analysis of “the “outdoor Lionel” mentality of the large manufactures” and it developing to the RTR mentality, does define part of the problem. Cut up LGB stuff for parts and you can really see the faces get red, but then again, that in itself is a bonus. I digress.
People like John Snyder, John and Linda Spencer and the owners of Ozark Miniatures and Clem at Warriors Run would make great judges. Model Train Manufacturers and Dealers are to involved with just wanting to sell RTR stuff.
If anyone is interested in me particpating in the judging, that would be fine. I must tell you though, as a disclaimer, I can be bribed and will always sell my votes to the highest bidder.
The National Narrow Gauge Convention model contests are not judged. Every attendee is given a ballot with the registration papers. Selection is by popular vote, except Best of Show which is selected by committee.
The model for a good model contest would be the way the NMRA judges and scores a contest…follow their lead, and don’t try re-inventing the wheel…
Bruce Chandler said:
Jean and I have decided that we’ll keep doing the overnight stay so we can do the Drag and Brag, but we’ll do the show on Friday and head home Saturday morning. The only reason we did the show on Saturday was for the contest.
Bruce,
I hope you reconsider after some time to think about it. You do some fine modeling.
It would be a shame for a lot of people to miss seeing it.
Only a small percentage of show visitors make it to the D & B.
A large percentage of show visitors enjoy your models every year…regardless of what the judges do.
I’d hate for the show visitors to lose the opportunity
Ralph
Bruce,
You accused the judges with a lack of integrity. Do you have proof of this? If not you should this twice before saying anything. You have a right to say that you don’t like the results and complain about it. You even have the right to say that they don’t have integrity but that’s a cheap shot against the judges. Would you want people to say that about you?
Regards,
LAO
Nobody’s questioning anyone’s integrity. Lack of good judgement, maybe. If you saw yourself, what was awarded “Best of Show” as compared to a lot of the other models that were entered, you’d agree that it was a travesty. And it’s not like this is a first either, I’ve seen it happen a few times over the years. As for any proof, it was there for all to see.
The first and second place winners in all the categories, were, hands down, far superior to that particular model. There was a museum quality entrant that didn’t even place. Makes you wonder what some people are thinking!
Ken, read Bruce’s posting on the aristo site. It is right there stating that the contest lacks integrity. His words, not mine.
Lao
You read the posting, you saw the pictures, there’s your proof.
