Large Scale Central

Earmarks

This is kind of interesting

"The Seattle Times reported yesterday that she submitted 31 earmark requests totaling $197 million in the current (FY2009) budget cycle. According to that paper, it was “more, per person, than any other state.” “The Washington Post reports that in 2000, Palin took an extraordinary step as the mayor of Wasilla, Alaska, a town that had fewer than 5,500 residents—she hired a Washington lobbyist to seek congressional earmarks. According to the Post, she won a total of $6.1 million in earmarks for the city of Wasilla in 2002.” Here’s the full article: http://www.americanprogressaction.org/issues/2008/palin_earmarks.html Will it matter that she and McCain trumpet her as the enemy of earmarks, when in fact she was the national queen of earmarks? I doubt it. I’m pretty annoyed about how much of my tax money was going to fund Alaskan secessionsts though.

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.

I’m pretty annoyed at how much money was going to Obama’s ‘community organizing,’ then being passed through to his racist, anti-American, anti-white spiritual leader.

Happy RRing,

Jerry

How much money was it, Jerry?

mike omalley said:
How much money was it, Jerry?
I'm not speaking for Jerry. But a penny would be too much.
mike omalley said:
http://www.americanprogressaction.org/issues/2008/palin_earmarks.html

I’m pretty annoyed about how much of my tax money was going to fund Alaskan secessionsts though.


Thanks for the link, Mike - interesting read.

The fourth paragraph points out that “over the course of her four years [Palin] sought earmarks as city mayor and won an average of $6.7 million a year.” I didn’t know that.

Impressive - looks like the mayor was on the ball! If I’d lived in Wasilla when she was up for re-election, her success bringing outside funds into the community would have influenced my vote.

Are you suggesting the folks in Wasilla are all secessionists, or that the grants were funding subversive activities? I missed the part of the article that provides evidence for that.

What the article actually says about Palin’s industriousness in seeking these grants comes out in paragraph 6:

“There is nothing particularly wrong with any of these actions…[Palin] didn’t create the rules about how federal money is distributed…but once the rules were in place, she used them to the maximum advantage of those she was elected to represent.”

Looks like we’ve established two things:
1) Mrs. Palin was very good at her job, and played it by the book.
2) Your assertion that taxpayer dollars were being used to fund Alaskan secessionists has more spin on it than a Roger Clemens slider.

The article does state that “Palin has advertised herself as a reformer and a skeptic of earmarking while maneuvering to become the earmark queen of the earmark state.” The comment suggests Mrs. Palin is behaving hypocritically. It’s a cheap shot, full of hyperbole.

The Australian government recently announced a plan to provide high schools with laptops for every student in Years 9 - 12. I’m skeptical about the idea for a variety of reasons. However, if my kids were still in school and I was asked to help prepare a submission to help their high school share in this largesse, I’d be in it boots and all.

Following the rules doesn’t disqualify me from being skeptical about them, nor does it mean I can’t push for the rules to be reformed. However, just as Mrs. Palin did, I would play by the the rules that are there, not the rules as I want them to be.

The article’s very last sentence reads: “Perhaps there are things that John McCain can learn from Sara Palin during the course of the coming campaign.” That’s right - just omit the first word.

I never said she was wrong to seek federal money for her town–I said she was wrong to claim that she was some kind of crusader against earmarks.

If one wants to vote for her based on her ability to deliver federal pork to her town, she’s clearly been good at it. If you want to vote for her as a reformer, someone who has worked against federal pork, well, you are being mislead

Also my argument about federal funding for secessionists was meant in a general sense–Alaskans in her district are the beneficiaries of remarkable Federal largesse. Yet they feel themselves to be so oppressed that significant numbers if them want to secede. That’s pretty striking. Virginia is second in federal spending, mostly because of the Pentagon and service headquarters and Arlington Cemetery, etc. There are no VA parties calling for secession that I know of. That seems like a very meaningful contrast of political cultures to me.

Dave Healy said:
"There is nothing particularly wrong with any of these actions....[Palin] didn’t create the rules about how federal money is distributed...but once the rules were in place, she used them to the maximum advantage of those she was elected to represent."

Looks like we’ve established two things:
1) Mrs. Palin was very good at her job, and played it by the book.
2) Your assertion that taxpayer dollars were being used to fund Alaskan secessionists has more spin on it than a Roger Clemens slider.

The article does state that “Palin has advertised herself as a reformer and a skeptic of earmarking while maneuvering to become the earmark queen of the earmark state.” The comment suggests Mrs. Palin is behaving hypocritically. It’s a cheap shot, full of hyperbole.

The Australian government recently announced a plan to provide high schools with laptops for every student in Years 9 - 12. I’m skeptical about the idea for a variety of reasons. However, if my kids were still in school and I was asked to help prepare a submission to help their high school share in this largesse, I’d be in it boots and all.

Following the rules doesn’t disqualify me from being skeptical about them, nor does it mean I can’t push for the rules to be reformed. However, just as Mrs. Palin did, I would play by the the rules that are there, not the rules as I want them to be.


Dave,
That’s a load of horse crap. Using that same logic, would it be OK for her to have had several abortions while crusading against it?
It was not a cheap shot, she is being a hypocrite.
There is nothing wrong with trying to obtain funds for your community. But doing so in such excess might very well take funding away from communities that may have really needed the money.
As for you and the rules…I live by my beliefs. I don’t need rules and laws to tell me something is not right. And if I take advantage of something I don’t think is right, because I can, that would make me a hypocrite also.
Ralph

Ralph, when was the last time you rolled through a stop sign on an empty country road?

Steve Featherkile said:
Ralph, when was the last time you rolled through a stop sign on an empty country road?
I'm not on a crusade to support stop signs. She is the Queen of Earmarks while at the same time calling for an end to Earmarks. I really don't see how anybody can be objective and say this isn't hypocritical. It is an obvious case of hypocrisy. We are all guilty of it at one time or another. But most of us are not doing it on such a large scale. It's no different than Al Gore harping about Global Warming and living in a 12,000 sq.ft mansion. Ralph

Don’t avoid the question.

mike omalley said:
I never said she was wrong to seek federal money for her town--I said she was wrong to claim that she was some kind of crusader against earmarks.

If one wants to vote for her based on her ability to deliver federal pork to her town, she’s clearly been good at it. If you want to vote for her as a reformer, someone who has worked against federal pork, well, you are being mislead

Also my argument about federal funding for secessionists was meant in a general sense–Alaskans in her district are the beneficiaries of remarkable Federal largesse. Yet they feel themselves to be so oppressed that significant numbers if them want to secede. That’s pretty striking. Virginia is second in federal spending, mostly because of the Pentagon and service headquarters and Arlington Cemetery, etc. There are no VA parties calling for secession that I know of. That seems like a very meaningful contrast of political cultures to me.


I said she was good at her job. That is what the article you cited also implied, even though it was hardly a panegyric to Mrs. Palin.

It appears you agree.

I’m glad to hear your remark about funding secessionists was a generalisation. I don’t know exactly what “significant numbers” means in the context of your statement, above. The prospect of Alaska seceding from the US isn’t exactly hogging the headlines, and I’m inclined to think the event is neither imminent nor worthy of serious discussion.

You and I see the secession issue differently. People get annoyed by different things - c’est la vie!

Dave Healy said:
mike omalley said:
I never said she was wrong to seek federal money for her town--I said she was wrong to claim that she was some kind of crusader against earmarks.

If one wants to vote for her based on her ability to deliver federal pork to her town, she’s clearly been good at it. If you want to vote for her as a reformer, someone who has worked against federal pork, well, you are being mislead

Also my argument about federal funding for secessionists was meant in a general sense–Alaskans in her district are the beneficiaries of remarkable Federal largesse. Yet they feel themselves to be so oppressed that significant numbers if them want to secede. That’s pretty striking. Virginia is second in federal spending, mostly because of the Pentagon and service headquarters and Arlington Cemetery, etc. There are no VA parties calling for secession that I know of. That seems like a very meaningful contrast of political cultures to me.


I said she was good at her job. That is what the article you cited also implied, even though it was hardly a panegyric to Mrs. Palin.

It appears you agree.

I’m glad to hear your remark about funding secessionists was a generalisation. I don’t know exactly what “significant numbers” means in the context of your statement, above. The prospect of Alaska seceding from the US isn’t exactly hogging the headlines, and I’m inclined to think the event is neither imminent nor worthy of serious discussion.

You and I see the secession issue differently. People get annoyed by different things - c’est la vie!


I guess 3% of the population is a significant number. I got that number off the Alaskan Independence Party website. And all they’re advocationg is a vote on entering the Union that they were denied in 1956. Out of 4 choices, one was an Independent Country.

http://www.akip.org/

Ralph Berg said:
That's a load of horse crap. Using that same logic, would it be OK for her to have had several abortions while crusading against it? It was not a cheap shot, she is being a hypocrite. There is nothing wrong with trying to obtain funds for your community. But doing so in such excess might very well take funding away from communities that may have really needed the money. As for you and the rules...........I live by my beliefs. I don't need rules and laws to tell me something is not right. And if I take advantage of something I don't think is right, because I can, that would make me a hypocrite also. Ralph
Chuckle!!! "Would it be OK for her to have had several abortions while crusading against it?" Well, no - it would probably indicate a rare strain of schizophrenia, or someone charged with a serious crime attempting to get off the hook by pleading insanity!!!

Since we’re talking logic here, let’s break the contention of hypocrisy into a syllogism:

Premise One: Mrs. Palin actively sought, and accepted, earmark funding.
Premise Two: A person who actively seeks, and accepts, earmark funding while inveighing against the practice is a hypocrite.
Conclusion: Mrs. Palin is a hypocrite.

Premise One is a matter of public record. It’s Premise Two that’s dubious.

Let’s say I’m a member of a school PTA that wants to apply for Commonwealth funding to get laptops for kids. I stand up and argue, loudly and vociferously, that the whole idea is a load of codswallop.

It comes to a vote. The roll is called, and the result is 17 - 1 in favour of going for the laptops. All eyes turn towards the lone dissenter, because he has expertise in this area and would be the person best qualified to draft a successful submission.

Would I draft it? Sure! Would I give it my best shot! Sure! Why? Because, at the very least, I have to live with those other 16 people. At best, it’s because we’re friends with a common interest - what’s best for our kids.

There is one other thing: somewhere, deep in the depths of my hard black heart, there is the tiniest vestige of humility. However unlikely it may seem, there is just the smallest, remotest possibility that the other sixteen people are right, and I am WRONG!

Now let’s get feral. Suppose the committe voted 17 - 1 to buy heroin to flavour all the kids’ milkshakes. Absurd? No more so than the proposition you put forward.

Would I join the majority? Unlikely.

It’s awesome to read you don’t need rules and laws to tell you something is not right. Me, I get by with a little help from my friends.

Dave, so what evidence do you have that this scenario applied? None. It’s a fantasy. It might be true, but it runs counter to where the evidence points

Fo example: Palin went out on national TV and announced that she had said “no” to the famous “bridge to nowhere.” She said: “I championed reform to end the abuses of earmark spending by Congress. In fact, I told Congress — I told Congress, ‘Thanks, but no thanks,’ on that bridge to nowhere. If our state wanted a bridge, I said we’d build it ourselves.”

The crowd cheered–those rugged individualist Alaskans!

But that’s not what happened. See this account from Reuters news service

http://www.reuters.com/article/politicsNews/idUSN3125537020080901

She was for it, and said she was insulted that it was called a “bridge to nowhere.” After a national outcry over the staggerng amount of tax dollars going to fund a largely un-needed bridge, she still reiterated her support and her regret at the project’s demise

"The Anchorage Daily News interviewed Palin during her 2006 campaign for governor. At the time, federal funding for the bridge had been stripped by Congress. They asked if she was in favor of continuing state funding for the project. “Yes,” she responded, noting specifically her desire to renew Congressional support:

[b]Yes. I would like to see Alaska’s infrastructure projects built sooner rather than later. The window is now–while our congressional delegation is in a strong position to assist.[/b] 

But Congress did not come up with more money fro the project, so she canceled it, saying:

[b]Despite the work of our congressional delegation, we are about $329 million short of full funding for the bridge project, and it’s clear that Congress has little interest in spending any more money on a bridge between Ketchikan and Gravina Island.[/b]

Palin’s desire to have federal funding directed toward pet projects in Alaska, however, did not diminish. As recently as March 2008 — around the time she first met McCain — her special counsel, John Katz, wrote in the Juneau Empire that despite recognizing increased scrutiny of such spending, Palin was not “not abandoning earmarks altogether.” While McCain expressed high-profile disdain for earmarks, the Palin administration held that:

[b][E]armarks are not bad in themselves. In fact, they represent a legitimate exercise of Congress’ constitutional power to amend the budget proposed by the president.[/b]

Now I actually agree with that last statement about earmarks. In my opinion, the campaign against “earmarks” is mostly political theater. But then I’m not out on the campaign trail talking about myself as an enemy of “earmarks.” And I’m not out lying about the history of my position on the “bridge to nowhere.”

It is possible, of course, that the actual meetings in the governor’s office went as you suggest. Everyone in the room wanted that bridge, and Sarah Palin stood alone against them. It’s possible she burst into song, like Mary Poppins, and a full orchestra supported her as she sang her passionate but happy opposition to this waste of the taxpayers money. Indeed, you could choose to believe that. You can make up any fantasy you want about any candidate. Or you can look at the record.

Not that it has a relevance to anything nor do I think it has any bearing on the up-coming election, but Sarah Palin has a more favorable poll rating than McCain, Barak Hussein Obama and Joe Biden. I thought that rather interesting…:wink:

Ken Brunt said:
Not that it has a relevance to anything nor do I think it has any bearing on the up-coming election, but Sarah Palin has a more favorable poll rating than McCain, Barak Hussein Obama and Joe Biden. I thought that rather interesting.............;)
Ken,

It does have relevance, she is the only one that has not been a senator and has a great looking set of legs. She can support her opinion and doesn’t have to screech like a banishy to get her point across. Besides that she has proven she has found at least one man willing to go to bed with her for the last 20 years plus, and have you noticed that grin on his face?

Steve Featherkile said:
Don't avoid the question.
You been following me around Steve? I did answer the question......very plainly.....I thought.

I’m not on a crusade to support stop signs.
She is the Queen of Earmarks while at the same time calling for an end to Earmarks.
I really don’t see how anybody can be objective and say this isn’t hypocritical. It is an obvious case of hypocrisy.
We are all guilty of it at one time or another. But most of us are not doing it on such a large scale.

The last line says it all.
Ralph

Dave Healy said:
Ralph Berg said:
That's a load of horse crap. Using that same logic, would it be OK for her to have had several abortions while crusading against it? It was not a cheap shot, she is being a hypocrite. There is nothing wrong with trying to obtain funds for your community. But doing so in such excess might very well take funding away from communities that may have really needed the money. As for you and the rules...........I live by my beliefs. I don't need rules and laws to tell me something is not right. And if I take advantage of something I don't think is right, because I can, that would make me a hypocrite also. Ralph
It's awesome to read you don't need rules and laws to tell you something is not right. Me, I get by with a little help from my friends.
I was taught right from wrong and have done the same for my children. My conscience guides me. Those that require rules and consequences will do the "wrong" thing when nobody is looking. More concerned with getting caught than doing the right thing. Ralph

And she claims she :stood up to congress" in the bridge to nowhere but in fact she supported it and after CONGRESS canceled it she kept the money

I was raised to call that kind of behavior “lying.”