Large Scale Central

Different type of 3D printers for modeling

Modeling Technical Modeling
#1

There’s been much interest in 3D printing, and what different types of printers are out there. I thought I’d start this thread off with the two main (and inexpensive) types of printers that are commonly used for modeling.

Fused Deposition Modeling (FDM)

With this technology, objects can be built with production-grade thermoplastics (Generally PLA, but also ABS, TPU, PET and PETG, PEEK, and others). Objects are built layer by layer by heating the plastic filament to its melting point and extruding it.

Stereolithography (SLA)

Stereolithography makes use of a liquid plastic as the source material and this liquid plastic is transformed into a 3D object layer by layer. Liquid resin is placed in a vat that has a transparent bottom. A UV laser traces a pattern on the liquid resin from the bottom of the vat to cure and solidify a layer of the resin. The solidified structure is progressively dragged up by a lifting platform while the laser forms a different pattern for each layer to create the desired shape of the 3D object.

I have no direct experience with SLA printing, but generally, SLA provides much finer detail, and quicker print speed for multiple items, at the expense of the size of object you can print. SLA also has more post-processing needed (curing, washing, etc) whereas an FDM-printed object is near ready-to-use.

#2

Bob,

I don’t own a printer, but have associates who do.

I have quite a few bits and pieces printed for me by them.

They have moved on from filament printers to resin printers.

The results of the resin types are superior to the filament.

#3

Keep the learning coming Bob, I really would like to know a LOT more on this

#4

SLA printers are much more affordable for our hobby today with the Anycube variant. when I got into this I had tried a FDM machine that had a larger build footprint. I ultimately returned this unit as the larger build platform didn’t relate to the ability to make larger models that I wanted at that time. I had been exposed to and had a few prints done on a high end SLA machine as early as 2007 and it was hard to lose the detail with the FDM. I was aware of the form 1 when it first cam out, but the build volume was less than needed. enter the Form 2 which had a much bigger build volume, and a friend that had one for his business. a couple of prints later I was hooked. at that time it was a 5K investment for the full kit.

like FDM there are many resigns available (at least in the Form 2 lineup) some are very fragile for everyday model use, others are much more impact resistant. I use one called durable for parts that are in harms way. many of the parts I have spit out have been used to make rubber spin cast molds. they have a wax based resign that is for making lost wax masters that fully burn out. recently there is a resign that effectively replicates rubber flexible parts. I have not tried all of the resins as you need a liter of resign and a tray that costs about $250.00. one advantage to the form 2 and it further variants is that it has found a home in the dental appliance market, and has resins specifically for that discipline.

I should mention that I use Solidworks 2017 (from my former business) for model creation, and The Form 2 has a dedicated slicer/support program called Preform, that is constantly being updated

#5

I just looked at how relatively inexpensive these printer are. Wow… These really open up the possibilities for folks with limited space to store an arsenal of tools, let alone the budget to buy that arsenal! Teach on!

#6

Eric Mueller said:

I just looked at how relatively inexpensive these printer are. Wow… These really open up the possibilities for folks with limited space to store an arsenal of tools, let alone the budget to buy that arsenal! Teach on!

Yea, prices for printers really have come down, and the market has a ton of options to chose from. They’re still not a commodity like laser or inkjet printers are, they still need care and feeding (leveling, tweaking, etc) but they’re getting there.

One thing you need to accept going into 3d printing is that you will get print failures, often several hours into a print. Sometimes you can recover from them with some tricks, but usually I just figure out the problem and start again.

#7

Thanks for starting this thread Bob.

With SLA printers do you need to fill and sand the parts to get rid of the layered look?

#8

Eric,

While there is still some visual stair stepping, it is so small that once painted is not noticeable. depending on type of resin I can have layers between 100 and 25 microns. most time I run at 50 microns and if I did the math correctly that is .002 per layer. I would check the specifications for the printer you are considering.

Al P.

#9

Al Pomeroy said:

Eric,

While there is still some visual stair stepping, it is so small that once painted is not noticeable. depending on type of resin I can have layers between 100 and 25 microns. most time I run at 50 microns and if I did the math correctly that is .002 per layer. I would check the specifications for the printer you are considering.

Al P.

Eric, to follow up on Al’s comments, you will also have some post processing to clean up the support connection points. With resin (SLA/DLP/LED) printers, the parts must have supports in order to have a successful print. The connection points will need some degree of sanding/cleaning depending on the size of the connection, your overall desired look and whether or not the support face must mate or be glued to another surface. The cleanup is not hard, it just takes a little time.

#10

Dan,

Good point, easy to forget about. what I try to do is position the supports where they are more easily cleaned up, and generally away from the highly detailed surfaces when ever possible.

Al P.

#11

Al, since most of the stuff I print that is RR related gets heavily weathered to look old and used, I’ve found the support connection points can simulate rust pitting if properly painted so they come in handy from time to time. But hiding them as you suggested is a great idea.

#12

Thanks, everyone. We are still tinkering with materials and methods as we settle on what works for us, balancing durability, affordability, and, yes, pleasure of the process. I could really see something like this paying for things like windows, doors, and detail parts. I am not sure how much I would enjoy dickering with CAD software to make more complex things.

Eric

#13

Eric Mueller said:

Thanks, everyone. We are still tinkering with materials and methods as we settle on what works for us, balancing durability, affordability, and, yes, pleasure of the process. I could really see something like this paying for things like windows, doors, and detail parts. I am not sure how much I would enjoy dickering with CAD software to make more complex things.

Eric

Eric,

A 3D printer (of any type) is very handy to make doors and windows - and they were SO much nicer than the ones I scratch built from styrene. And if you’re NOT going for very fine detail, the SLA printers work just fine. Be aware that you probably need to PAINT the finished product with paint that provides UV protection.

If you don’t want to mess with CAD software, you probably don’t have to. First of all, there a LOT of stuff available at https://www.thingiverse.com/ - here your best bet here is to be prepared to use various search terms as the search engine there does NOT seem very smart.

Every printer that I have seen seems to come with some software that translates the .stl file into the instructions for the specific printer. Most of this software allows you to scale the product - at worst, you might have to do some math to figure out the proper ratio for scaling an 1:12 window or door to 1:22.5. (And if you really hate math, AND have the patience, I bet somebody here would do it for you! (https://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-innocent.gif))

#14

I have printed hundreds of parts on our train trailer. I will include a couple videos that shows our mine deck that is loaded with 3D printed parts.

The next video is a moonshine still,

There are many many other printed parts on this trailer layout.

All these parts are printed out of PLA because it is not exposed to direct sunlight, anything I print for outside is PETG it is very durable to exterior elements.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A_ll3IKtiHg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aSbeVP3WNqY

The next video is showing many 3D printed parts but did not say in the audio, I mention a lot of parts to see, but did not mention them being printed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dSMO1vzFirQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HKpc4YOKx60

This last video shows a slow walk around of the trailer, again shows a lot of 3D printed parts, Buckets, concrete blocks, Steel rack with printed steel angles and bars stacked on the rack. In the hotel there is the check in counter with check in book and service bell printed. The Backery has pies , cake, breads, soda bottles, all the shelving, the windows and doors in the hotel building. Gas cans, Milk cans, cattle watering tank, moonshine bottles, the baggage cart and suit cases on the cart. In the cook shack all the dishes were printed the water tank and the wood fired water heater, the dishwasher sink, the large coffee dispencer. All the dishes on the outside covered table , the refridge, and green freezer, the meat grinder and the meat all printed. The sliced breads and cut pies are lasered. Remember for every part that was printed it had to be hand painted, See all the blue dishes with white speckels? more than 50 of them. There are many items I have failed to mention, but if you are into details a printer is a must. Try buying some of what I printed,

Yes I have DRAWN every part I printed, in sketchup, I have 13 yrs experience with sketchup in my business, so yes it works very well for me.

I use 2 different FDM printers, Sorry not the cheap ones, I have used 3 different Tevo brand with good success, because we print for our business I have purchased a Makergear and a Mason, beds are 8 x 8.5" x 8.5" tall print tables. Both are american made a must for me from now on.

SLICER programs can be a problem, I started with Matter Control bought the 150.00 Simplified 3D , The word simplified is a lie, for me. I have used CURA , Hmmm ok I keep going back the Matter Control, so simple.

Do I use Thingyverse? no , They have very little of what I need/want, I can draw up most of what I want before I can find it and down load for printing. I have spent a lot of time TRYING to find things , Screw it ,I just draw what I need. I know that is easy for me, not for many others.

Do I put my drawings into thingyverse, No , never looked into it, and probably will not bother the time it takes to research how to do it.

Have I shared my drawings sure have, all I need is an email and what you want and some time to do it, and maybe a reminder.

Have I ever drawn things for others? sure have. Most of the time for free.

Figures have I drawn figures? YEs Massive time to do that. Printed a few, will do more later, ONLY FOR MY FUN. I still own and run a business.

#15

Ok a couple of questions, kind of looking around for a maybe purchase of a 3D printer. I was looking at an ElegooMars 3, and I have noticed some comments I cannot find the answers.
. What types of printers need parts washers and curing machines/ tanks? Are these things expensive and how much product do they use?
Between the 2 style of printers is the “plastic “ for one way more expensive than the other style?
For doing things like Dan’s center beam, is the print quality better on one type of material better.? The way I look at it is I would like to buy one and keep it other than buying an inexpensive “beginner model and then then a few month down the road wanting to upgrade to a better printer or type of filament/ resin.
Are there lots of fumes/ smell associated with these ? Can the be in a garage with a gas water heater without going BOOM?

#16

What types of printers need parts washers and curing machines/ tanks? Are these things expensive and how much product do they use?

Printed resin parts need to be cured and washed. I do not use a wash and cure machine. I use a $15 “Pickle tray” and a UV nail polish light $35. I print 100’s of parts a week and use about a quart of Isopropyl Alcohol a month.

Between the 2 style of printers is the “plastic “ for one way more expensive than the other style?

The 2 most common 3d printers are FDM (plastics) and SLA (resins). Resin is more expensive per gram than most plastics.

For doing things like Dan’s center beam, is the print quality better on one type of material better.?

I designed the center beam to use both FDM and SLA printers. The larger parts that are flat and require more strength are printed in plastic. The small detail parts are resin.

The way I look at it is I would like to buy one and keep it other than buying an inexpensive “beginner model and then then a few month down the road wanting to upgrade to a better printer or type of filament/ resin.

From a foot away, You would be hard pressed to tell the difference between a print done with the Elegoo Mars and a $3000 Formlabs printer. The resolution is much the same and once you put a coat of paint on the minute difference will disappear. The more expensive printers are faster with a higher duty cycle for manufacturing.

Are there lots of fumes/ smell associated with these ?

Yes, Some materials are not so strong. It depends how sensitive you are and the fumes are certainly not good for you so best to have an exhaust fan to pull from the room. My wife is most sensitive to the smell of the Isopropyl.

Can the be in a garage with a gas water heater without going BOOM?

The IPA used for cleaning parts is HIGHLY FLAMMABLE. Nothing else will go BOOM.

#17

IMO, 3d modeling is a great tool for kids to pick up even when young. It’s something they’ll use in hobbies, and might also inspire them to pursue design as a profession.

At the risk of gross simplification, there are two main software paths: CAD and “artistic.” The latter (I’m sure there’s a better term) is great at free-form things, like figures, animals, and especially animations. CAD is more of an engineering approach. Either one works with 3D printing.

There are fairly robust free CAD platforms out there, like DesignSpark. I was going to suggest Fusion 360 (from Autodesk), but it looks like they’re no longer offering it for free.

Just my $.02,
Cliff

#18

Interesting - THANKS! I did use Fusion 360 back when it was free, but I haven’t tried DesignSpark. I did take mechanical drawing in school (and I did well, as I recall), but that was a LONG time ago.

#19

Fusion 360 can still be used for free. They have put some limitations on the free version but none that would hinder the types of design used for modeling.

1 Like
#20

A note on placing drawings on Thingyverse. Their website makes it a no-brainer EXCEPT for an issue with webpage caching. Specifically if you add/edit something it tends to NOT change the page you are working on. I spent a fair bit of time banging my head on the wall over this. In Firefox if you open the Web Developer Tools pane (CNTL+SHIFT+I) caching is turned off and changes become immediately visible. Just turn it on before you start and leave enabled while creating your project.