Large Scale Central

Decal Printers ?

Tools and Tips
#1

OK while I absolutely love the quality of decals I get from Stan and the idea of buying a Silhouette for cutting vinyl is still on my list of things to do but I still would still like to spit out the occasional water slide decal. Now unbeknownst to me until last years challenge there are two types of printer ink; opaque and transparent. In the model car days I had what must have been an opaque ink printer because it printed decals just fine. My newest printer does not they suck as the ink is transparent they don’t work on clear paper.

It doesn’t seem as if I can get opaque ink cartridges for my printer. So is there place where you can buy custom cartridges or can I refill my empties with opaque ink and if not what are some full sheet printers that wont break the bank that print using opaque ink. I say full sheet because I have a ton of paper I could cut it if I have to.

I kinda want to stay away from an Alps because therre expensive and kinda becoming obsolete. Also are there any that print in metallic?

#2

I heard the problem is the inability to get a good white. That’s why the Alps is the favorite.

#3

Yeah I understand the white issue. That has always been the issue and is a great selling point for the Alps. I thought I read somewhere that it did metallic also. But they are expensive and for a few decals just not worth it. A regular desk jet “can” make decent decals and Ihave done it with probably a hundred decal sets. Then the printer I was using died and replaced it and this one uses transparent ink as opposed to the other that used opaque ink.

Here is the skinny on the transparent ink printers. It can and does work if you use white decal paper. The white paper, just like regular printer paper, provides the necessary opaque background for the ink to work. So any color on it shows up solid with a white back ground. Or you can choose to set any back ground color you wish doesn’t matter. To print white letters you simply set a back ground color and white font color and then print and the printer just omits the ink where the white should be giving white letters. This is all fine and dandy where a solid block of colored back ground is needed. Such as signs or what not, or maybe a herald where you could trim the decal close to a colored line. I have done and do do it and you will see the results of this possibly on the MIK build.

The problem is when you want a transparent back ground, there is the rub. So for lettering or any decal where you need/want the background color it doesn’t work. The ink just doesn’t prevent the background color from coming through and looks like crap and in that case you also cannot print white (never have).

Now in HO I was able to print white letters by using white paper and then very closely experimenting and fiddling with the color programs to find a close match to the paint I was using for the back ground. The result looked in my opinion very prototypical in that it looked as if someone repainted the car in a close color and then stenciled the new letters on in white. I was very happy with the results. So thats is something to think about.

So there is still some use for the desk jet but unless there is one that prints with opaque ink the transparent paper is worthless.

#4

“Ink” type printers are easily dissolved by water when doing decals. The “Laserjet” printers work better because they are a colored toner which adheres to the paper or decal sheet. I read somewhere that there is some manufacturer making “white toner” which will print white. If you familiar with the “Xerox” procedure (just using that term because everyone understands it), the toner (black) is stuck to the paper by an electrostatic charge. Now they make colored and white toners. My friend got a color laserjet printer and uses it to make decals, although he has not tried white toner.

I think, but not sure, you have to have a special printer. Anyway if you search for “color laserjet white printer” you may find something modern and reasonably priced.

#5

Joe the water solubility issue with inkjets is no problem at all. Have done at least a couple hundred of them. The key there is to print it and let it dry. Then spray with a dull coat (or a gloss coat if your wanting them shiny). this protects the ink just fine. I have never had a failure due to water affecting the ink (about the only failure I haven’t had).

Now the laser jet idea is intriguing especially if you can use a white toner. My question would be the heat. I was always told never to do decals on a laser printer because of that reason but that was long ago. If they can be done this way and white toner is avaialble then that would be interesting.

#6

Just read about it and Laser Printers require a special paper for the heat. Inkjet paper doesn’t work. But it seems like the better way maybe the laser printer. Paper can be used in a photo copier as well. that’s a bonus.

#7

Yeah while laser printers are an option going with white toner you might as well buy the Alps. It is not an inexpensive option. For white I will rely on Stan.

So looks like we are stuck with color laser printers or color inkjets (if a suitable ink can be found)

#8

Well, you cannot buy the Alps except used, and the “ink” supply is rapidly going away.

You can find white toner and people who set the system up.

Greg

#9

Greg Elmassian said:

Well, you cannot buy the Alps except used, and the “ink” supply is rapidly going away.

You can find white toner and people who set the system up.

Greg

Yup, you’re right, Greg… The ALPS “ink” is reported to be “officially” unmanufactured as of May 2016. Those of us who are still using the system are stockpiling as much as we can. That’s the reason for increasing costs…

There is no “inexpensive” replacement for the system to date and all the posts on the ALPS users site are speculative.

Just don’t know what will happen. Ain’t it fun???

Thanks for the input, Devon… Enjoy doing the work for you…

#10

Well white will be a problem and really always has been from the DIY perspective. I could overlook white and just be content to order them from Stan or some other source when Stan runs out of “ink” (isn’t it really toner with the alps?). Color decals on the other hand shouldn’t be hard. But the investment of a new printer has to figure in. At Walmart.com the cheapest color laser printer is 150+ so you have to really want one to make the investment. Certainly they are multi-use so if you need a new printer then it could be a good investment. Just for decals and not being ale to do white, I dunno.

Now here is where I might go and experiment. I love Staples. I wonder if Staples would print them if we supply the paper. It can be done on a printer where we could provide a thumb drive or photocopier using the laser paper (this place is where I got my inkjet paper and they sell the laser paper) and a sheet printed on the inkjet at home. This could be very cost effective. I will check into this.

Don’t get me wrong I am not trying to undercut anyone. If you need great decals at a great price Stan is the go to guy and I have and will continue to buy decals from him. I am thinking just for that hurry up quick job and really Stan is hard to beat there also. Its nice to have that option when you just want to spit something out fast.

#11

Devon, the thing with coloured ink and toner, in order to make a mix of colours they have to transparent to some degree. Ink more so then toner. Laser printers and photocopiers work the same, with a plastic based powdered toner and heat and pressure to affix the toner to the paper.

Years ago, Mita made white toner, but it wasn’t readily available in the US. One of my customers, who copied blueprints used white toner, and blue paper to make blueprint copies. They guarded that toner like it was gold, because they had to purchase it, special order, from Japan. After that experience, I know of no other copier company, nor printer company (except Alps) that makes white ink/toner.

Its the white that gives the colours their opacity. On many pad printed models, they pad print white, then they pad print the heralds and artwork onto the white. That is why your decals didn’t look so good, the coluor of the base model showed through the decal colour. That is why coloured decals should be printed on white decal paper. Then there the issue of trimming the decal so the white doesn’t show around the edges. Clear decal paper is good for black lettering, because black is (usually) opaque, but magenta, cyan and yellow are not opaque. That is so that they can mix together on the paper, and make all of the colours we could want.

#12

Well I don’t want to disagree with the copier guy but I am going to, at least with personal experience. I used to have a regular desk jet that printed on clear paper and the ink was at the very least nearly opaque in that the decals were dark, thick, and not see through. They did not bleed back ground color. Used them for years. I have no idea what is different now, and I wonder why clear inkjet paper would be sold if all ink is as transparent as the stuff I have now. I mean they truly are useless you can barely see them. Printed on white paper makes a total transformation I assume because the white will reflect back the color and making it appear not transparent.

Like I said I can’t say what I actually had, I just know it worked, and they still sell clear inkjet paper for some reason. I have an email into the company to see if they can shed light on it.

I also asked the local Staples and they said they would try and print them on their color laser jet. But there is also a warning on the website that says to use the Laser printer immediately after turning it on because the roller will get to hot and melt it. So that could be an issue with a printer outfit. Might have to work a deal where they do it first thing. You would have to be on good terms with them.

#13

Devon, different inks from different manufacturers will be, um, different. And it also depends on the amount of saturation specified in the print driver/program/from the user. So I am not saying it didn’t happen, or that it didn’t work. I was just explaining why its not working now.

Maybe if you chose a darker colour, or could get more saturation, maybe the thinner ink could work almost as well. Dark colours have a certain amount of black mixed in with them, and so tend to be more opaque then say a light orange or pale green colour.

This is the issue I have with my artwork. I want decals made from my artwork, but since I haven’t found any white laser decal paper, I cant print my own. When I finally get around to that project, I will need to properly size my artwork, and match the paint colours I choose (as close as possible) and then email my artwork off to someone like Stan to have them printed for me.

#14

Devon, I would strongly suggest not using that paper in a laser printer/copier. The machine will not print until the hot roller reaches operating temperature, typically 392ºf. And the temperature of the hot roller is precisely controlled, so it should vary by no more then 5 to 10º from its set operating temperature. In other words, before it will print, it has to warm up to its preset temperature, and 4 hours after it’s turned on, it should still be at its preset temperature.

There should be no difference in temperature on the hot roller between the first minute of “ready to print”, and the end of the day at “ready to print”.

#15

The biggest problem with laser printers is that you can’t overlap colors; ie., if you’ve got a logo with white and colors on it. There’s no way you can remotely keep the paper lined up for multiple passes (to say nothing of knowing if you can simply swap out the toner cartridges or if you’d need separate printers.)

I got my wife a Cricut “Explore” last Christmas; it’s a combination printer and cutter. You can print your logos on white vinyl paper, and the machine will also cut it out for you at the same time. It can also cut True-Type fonts and custom artwork, so you’re not limited to Cricut’s cartridges anymore. I’ve not had a chance to play with it too deeply (haven’t had the need) but it’s on the short list of things to play with. I’m working on a caboose right now, and it will be a great candidate for playing with custom artwork. It’s not decal-thin, but it’s an option when you don’t need something that thin.

Later,

K

#16

Dave M

Clear and white laser decal paper is available from Robins Eggcetera

WWW.robinseggcetera.com

at least it was in 2015 when i ordered a bunch of it.

I have also overlaid clear decal colors over

top of another to increase opacity,but it’s a tedious way to do things

Bill

#17

Kevin S

Vinyl cutters are really great for multi colors as long as the letters are 3/8 in or bigger without serifs

(those little points on the sides of some fonts)

they are too east to rip off while you are “weeding”

(removing the center of an O for example)

They ought to supply a free bottle of ZANAX with every vinyl cutter

Bill

#18

huh? are you saying a color laser printer does not overlay colors?

wrong…

use a color laser printer that takes 4 toners, swap the black for white… done…

Greg

Kevin Strong said:

The biggest problem with laser printers is that you can’t overlap colors; ie., if you’ve got a logo with white and colors on it. There’s no way you can remotely keep the paper lined up for multiple passes (to say nothing of knowing if you can simply swap out the toner cartridges or if you’d need separate printers.)

I got my wife a Cricut “Explore” last Christmas; it’s a combination printer and cutter. You can print your logos on white vinyl paper, and the machine will also cut it out for you at the same time. It can also cut True-Type fonts and custom artwork, so you’re not limited to Cricut’s cartridges anymore. I’ve not had a chance to play with it too deeply (haven’t had the need) but it’s on the short list of things to play with. I’m working on a caboose right now, and it will be a great candidate for playing with custom artwork. It’s not decal-thin, but it’s an option when you don’t need something that thin.

Later,

K

#19

LASER PRINTERS. Be aware that NOT ALL laser printers will allow laser decal paper to run thro them. For instance…the Brother 4040CN did not allow me to run Lazertrans paper thro it - it melted the emulsion on the heated roller…Took ages to remove the emulsion that got stuck to the roller

There used to be a list of Laser printers on Google that were ok but I fear it is now obsolete…so beware…

By the way, there is a vinyl sheet on a ‘peelable’ paper background that takes inkjet ink very well…however, it leaves you with a white background. unless you fiddle the background, as Devon mentioned above…

#20

Greg Elmassian said:

huh? are you saying a color laser printer does not overlay colors?

wrong…

use a color laser printer that takes 4 toners, swap the black for white… done…

Greg

Kevin Strong said:

The biggest problem with laser printers is that you can’t overlap colors; ie., if you’ve got a logo with white and colors on it. There’s no way you can remotely keep the paper lined up for multiple passes (to say nothing of knowing if you can simply swap out the toner cartridges or if you’d need separate printers.)

I got my wife a Cricut “Explore” last Christmas; it’s a combination printer and cutter. You can print your logos on white vinyl paper, and the machine will also cut it out for you at the same time. It can also cut True-Type fonts and custom artwork, so you’re not limited to Cricut’s cartridges anymore. I’ve not had a chance to play with it too deeply (haven’t had the need) but it’s on the short list of things to play with. I’m working on a caboose right now, and it will be a great candidate for playing with custom artwork. It’s not decal-thin, but it’s an option when you don’t need something that thin.

Later,

K

Greg if only it was that easy. First of all, besides Alps, does anyone make a white toner? Second, for dark colours, some black is laid down first. If you could simply drop in a white cartrage, you would not end up with the dark colours you might want. A dark Forrest green would come out a pale green for example.