Large Scale Central

Crest Electronics Closing As of 7-31-16

General Discussion
#121

Just saw this thread on the closing of Crest. I was going to use that product for my future garden railroad as a way to remotely control the track power. Ideally I want the power supply in the house with a simple wireless remote that allows me to control the amount of power going to the track, and thus the speed of the train. A wire of course goes from inside the house to the track to power whatever is put on the rails.

What I am not interested in

  • Modifying my engines
  • Separate trains on the same track
  • Battery controlled trains.

Basically, I want to be able to remotely control the power dial, and ideally the direction, and use of momentum via a remote. I would have my power supply in the house, my trains outside and when I want to run them i just turn on the power supply, grab the remote and go outside.

The current options I am aware of that would allow me to do this are

Neither of these solutions are particularly appealing to me as I want to control my speed via a nice dial, not via some push buttons. I agree with many of the comments of others on this thread that having physical buttons and dials is nice because they offer tactile feedback.

#122

No, not in DCC, because the command station performs a vital function as the central part of the system. It’s where all the brains are.

The throttles are just display stations. There are many advantages to a centralized system, but you probably don’t care about them because these advantages may not be used at your railroad.

I won’t go into these, but an example of why a central control helps is the “all stop” command… you can’t do it without either a central station from a practical standpoint.

In the Revo, and all stop requires the throttle to send individual stop commands to EVERY POSSIBLE loco, so from 1 to 99 if you have 2 throttles or more. This takes so long that you can have a crash before the commands are completed. Sure there are workarounds that mitigate this, but it’s a “system” problem.

My posts are not to start a “simple” R/C vs. wireless DCC debate (Tony!), but to answer the question of “I was happy with the Revo, what can I replace it with”, and not going “down” in capability.

The system outlined can be put together inexpensively, and in stages, and with many different mix and match components. The takeaway is the statements I already made twice, add the “dead rail” transmitter and one receiver per loco, and the rest is ANY off the shelf DCC system and off the shelf DCC decoder.

I can see this is going to get heated, so anyone that wants further explanation and desires to evaluate their options, you are welcome to email me, I’ve repeated the basic idea several times, and now I can tell it’s going to get combative. I’m trying to help, not fight.

Greg

#123

Greg,

I hope that I wasn’t implying a RC/DCC debate with my questions. Just trying to figure out how the dead rail DCC works. I think it would actually work fairly good if you had an existing DCC set up already. But as a replacement for the Revo it seems like a more pricey option (not that anything in RC wouldn’t be pricey as well). But as you point out DCC is common in the smaller scales so thus the availability is much greater in both the new and used market. Btw, the only time I’ve ever used the Revo was on a HO display layout about 15 years ago. It seemed to work fairly good in that setting.

Nicolas,

I think you still might be able to use the Revo, but instead of buying new stock (or the shorthand new old stock; NOS), you would have to look for used equipment. Personally, I tend to buy used equipment anyway because; a it’s cheaper, and b something is better than nothing. :wink:

#124

Greg and Craig, it is my understanding that the Airwire System is deadrail DCC. Reading their literature, it certainly seems so. Have I overlooked something?

#125

Steve Featherkile said:

Greg and Craig, it is my understanding that the Airwire System is deadrail DCC. Reading their literature, it certainly seems so. Have I overlooked something?

Steve,

That’s what I thought too… But the better question is, does it require a command station like the Tam Valley picture indicates?

From the Airwire FAQ page

"What do I need to add AirWire™ to my garden railroad?

The most basic installation requires one AirWire900 throttle for controlling locomotives and one AirWire900 decoder installed in the locomotive to be controlled. You also need an appropriate battery and charger. Although we recommend and offer Lithium batteries, nearly any type of battery can be used."

#126

Dead Rail is a generic term that has come into use, mainly in the smaller scale such as “N” and “H0”, to describe any train layouts that do not have any power connection to the track at all. Hence Dead Rail. The term BPRC is also used a lot. Battery Powered Radio Control.

Yes, battery R/C is becoming readily accessible for “N” scale now. They use just one Li-Ion (or Li-Po) 3.7 volt pack and boost it up to around 8 - 11 volts. If anyone is interested in how that all works I can recommend plenty of reading at BPRC

#127

Hello Nicholas.

Four years before Aristocraft offered trackside R/C in the form of the original 2 x channel Train Engineer, Lewis Polk showed my Trackside R/C system at the 1992 Nuremberg Toy Fair.

He liked the potential so much he copied the basic idea and made it very low cost. I could not compete so eventually I gave the idea away.

Now, coincidentally with the demise of Crest, I am once again making exactly what you want.

TITAN Trackside R/C

#128

Craig Townsend said:

Steve Featherkile said:

Greg and Craig, it is my understanding that the Airwire System is deadrail DCC. Reading their literature, it certainly seems so. Have I overlooked something?

Steve,

That’s what I thought too… But the better question is, does it require a command station like the Tam Valley picture indicates?

From the Airwire FAQ page

"What do I need to add AirWire™ to my garden railroad?

The most basic installation requires one AirWire900 throttle for controlling locomotives and one AirWire900 decoder installed in the locomotive to be controlled. You also need an appropriate battery and charger. Although we recommend and offer Lithium batteries, nearly any type of battery can be used."

With my limited understanding of the process, the command station is replaced by the radio processor.

#129

no, the command station is the only unit generating DCC commands.

any throttles hooked to the DCC system talk to the command station.

Again there are a number of advantages to this, again related to it being a system, not just a number of paired independent throttles.

In Airwire, the function of the command station is integral to EACH throttle, and the throttles do not share information as a system.

Also, Airwire is not perfectly compatible with dcc, there are some exceptions, and remember you are normally using their decoder for the motor and another DCC decoder for sound.

Also, you can buy a DCC system with a tethered throttle for $158, so the old wives tales of DCC always being expensive are really 10 year old data from the DCC “haters”…

There’s many solutions, but the limitations of the fixed and unique frequency for each throttle is a limitation, and again you are dependent on only using airwire throttles.

Readers are missing what I have been stating over and over, the Tam Valley deadrail transmitter and receivers allow as many throttles as you want, no loco is locked a particular frequency, etc.

By explaining this seemingly several times, I have convinced myself that this is the best replacement for the Crest system, the flexibility to choose the DCC system and throttles and use any decoder would be my choice over a totally proprietary system.

Greg

#130

So how much is a “cheap” DCC system with full featured R/C throttles instead of tethered throttles?

#131

Tony, since you really do not have a dog in this fight, I know where you are going, and the point is NOT price only, but an alternative to Crest.

There’s all kinds of systems out there, and while we are friends, I know your goal is to pick this apart.

But, I will continue to engage, in the hopes I am helping people who are asking the question, "what is my alternative to the Revolution without going “less” in features and functionality. This leaves out your products, and Del’s products, and all the other more basic R/C systems, as previously discussed AND reinforced by the Crest users on this thread.

To answer your question, I’ll give one example:

  • NCE PowerCab system, About $160 street price.
  • Add RB02 wireless base station, $125
  • Now add as many wireless throttles as desired. They range in price from $140 to $195 depending on features, display, speed knob or buttons, etc.

Now this is just ONE example, and the capability and expandability of this system is tops. You can find less expensive alternatives.

OK, so again, this is not a war between R/C systems you make Tony and DCC, it’s about alternatives to the Crest Revolution system.

And again, I am trying to help, not battle.

Greg

There are too many systems available to research

#132

In the noise I think we’re starting to lose where the discussion was heading in the beginning (at least for me). What I would like is a reasonable-cost-per-locomotive, standard-supported, feature-rich RC solution. Sound included would be nice, as would a screen on the handheld telling me direction/speed/etc about the train. Easy to program without requiring having an EE on call. Ability to buy hardware for 80% of it from any manufacturer is a must for me, unless the price is incredibly low. I’m really not interested in a proprietary solution, I don’t want to be orphaned again when someone changes implementation, or goes belly up. YMMV, of course.

#133

Hi all

As a commited Revo user (2Tx and 13 Rx) I was disappointed with Crest demise.

Following a link in another thread i’ve found this site: monocacytrains.com . They produce a similar product to BlueRail but at an incredibly low price: $30 to $39 for each receiver. They are to be controlled by any android or iOs bluetooth device.

The cards are meant to be used in HO locomotives but their specs (up to 20V and 2A) mean they can be used with small G gauge garden locomotives.

I’m really tempted to order a three pack for evaluation ($99). Has anybody heard of them before?

José Morais
Headmaster of the Lapa Furada RR

#134

I do have to say this: We don’t know the reason for the interruption in the Crest products. Perhaps the rumor that Mike Kidman reported is true, that someone might buy the company.

It sure seems it has a niche that is going to be hard to fill exactly.

I don’t think the story is completely known, nor is the story over.

Greg

#135

Tony Walsham said:

Hello Nicholas.

Four years before Aristocraft offered trackside R/C in the form of the original 2 x channel Train Engineer, Lewis Polk showed my Trackside R/C system at the 1992 Nuremberg Toy Fair.

He liked the potential so much he copied the basic idea and made it very low cost. I could not compete so eventually I gave the idea away.

Now, coincidentally with the demise of Crest, I am once again making exactly what you want.

TITAN Trackside R/C

Tony is this the same thing as the Crest “Basic Train Engineer” Polk put out a couple years ago?

#136

Vic, it looks like it, even down to the PWM. That is something I need to consider, since my TE is getting long in the tooth, and my attempts to purchase spares has not been fruitful.

#137

José Morais said:
Hi all As a commited Revo user (2Tx and 13 Rx) I was disappointed with Crest demise. Following a link in another thread i’ve found this site: monocacytrains.com . They produce a similar product to BlueRail but at an incredibly low price: $30 to $39 for each receiver. They are to be controlled by any android or iOs bluetooth device. The cards are meant to be used in HO locomotives but their specs (up to 20V and 2A) mean they can be used with small G gauge garden locomotives. I’m really tempted to order a three pack for evaluation ($99). Has anybody heard of them before? José Morais Headmaster of the Lapa Furada RR

Never heard of them either, but 3/99 is a great price for small locmotives/railcars, etc.

#138

David Maynard said:

Vic, it looks like it, even down to the PWM. That is something I need to consider, since my TE is getting long in the tooth, and my attempts to purchase spares has not been fruitful.

Yeah David, I saw one at a show about three years ago and snatched that thing up! I haven’t seen hide nor hair of one since. So at least I have one spare. But I want to use one outdoors if I can pull off my outside track plans, they are extremely useful.

#139

Yea, I wanted a spare one just in case. But the gentleman who told me he would “let me have his” once he went with the Revo, fell out of touch. And my other attempts to purchase a spare haven’t been successful.

#140

Tony Walsham said:

Hello Nicholas.

Four years before Aristocraft offered trackside R/C in the form of the original 2 x channel Train Engineer, Lewis Polk showed my Trackside R/C system at the 1992 Nuremberg Toy Fair.

He liked the potential so much he copied the basic idea and made it very low cost. I could not compete so eventually I gave the idea away.

Now, coincidentally with the demise of Crest, I am once again making exactly what you want.

TITAN Trackside R/C

This looks interesting to me but on the site it says all the power supplies are for Australia. What would one do in the US to power it?