Large Scale Central

Crest Electronics Closing As of 7-31-16

General Discussion
#101

Ray Dunakin said:

Remember the old saying, “build a better mousetrap and the world will beat a path to your door”? I don’t know what things were like back when that saying was minted, but nowadays inventing a better anything is just the first step and no guarantee of success.

No matter what you create, no matter how great it is or what need it meets, you still need the right financing, the right manufacturing, the right distribution system, the right marketing and advertising, etc. And even if you have all your ducks in a row and the greatest product in the world, you still might fail because, generally speaking, people are irrational and often don’t choose the best product.

Dead on the money, Ray. I have my own saying, born of painful experience: “There’s a Grand Canyon between a great idea and putting a dollar in your pocket.”

Yeah. Oh yeah.

#102

OK. Bob has answered my question.

So there was nothing wrong with the Revo. As an on board R/C it was OK, but the sound sucked and that eventually spelt the death knell for the whole system.

Moral of the story?

If you are going to offer an all encompassing system you had better get it right.

Navin got sold a pup, so to speak.

#103

Bob McCown said:

Tony Walsham said:

If the Revo was so inexpensive and in theory the go to system for battery R/C, why did it ultimately fail in the market place?

I’ll speak about my own experience.

First, what I have: I own two Revo transmitters, and six receivers. Three of those are sound.

I bought a system when they first came out, because they were of a modern design, had great range, and backed by a large company. When they announced the sound receivers, I jumped on, because they promised “These are generic sounds, but they’ll be programmable soon”. Soon turned out to be “By this date”. That date went by with the excuse of “we dont have the hardware quite right, definitely by this date” Well, that date went by with a “We dont have good sound files, but we will soon, stay tuned”. Around that point I stopped buying receivers, despite needing several more, and put any kind of locomotive upgrading on hold. Three York shows promised “By the end of the summer”, and then the last one was “beginning of this summer”. For me that shows an incredible contempt for your client base. Somewhere around the “we dont have good sound files” I stopped buying, despite needing a couple more TX and several more RX.

Bob I do have to agree, but that is the way the industry operates. I do not know why. But I am sure it has cost many companies a lot of sales, and future customers. Aristo was famous for missed dates, and Crest was the remains of Aristo. I just received my LGB Olomana, that I ordered almost 2 years ago. And wasn’t there a promised diesel from, was it AML? We haven’t seen that one yet neither.

I don’t usually promise my customers a specific day, but if I do, I do all I can to make that happen. If it doesn’t happen, I call them and apologize for the delay. I am real focused on servicing my customers, because at the end of the day, THEY pay my paycheck. Its a shame that these companies, don’t operate with the same thought in mind.

#104

I don’t think I would say the sound sucked. It was more the inability to fulfill promises that sucked.

The R/C was IS very good. I have never had an issue with range and have never experienced any interference with other controllers. When I go to the Invasion, it is not unusual to have 10-12 trains running at a time and many are controlled by the Revolution. No problems.

The sound is just OK, and several of mine have the receiver and sound combination. It doesn’t compete with the Phoenix sound. Although it IS possible to have the Phoenix card controlled by the Revolution. Several of my locomotives have this configuration. You only have access to about four different triggers, but for me that has not been an issue.

I was promised that eventually I could customize the sound on the Revolution receiver. That never materialized. I only have the diesel sound and it is adequate. Some strange crossing whistle sound (5 blasts, instead of 4), but it does the job.

#105

FWIW, Al mentioned to me, at the NGRC2016, that a 6 amp CONVRTR was in the works.

#106

The sound did not suck… unless your definition that everything less than a QSI or Phoenix sucks.

I’d say the sound was on par with the boards like MyLocoSound… which means the Revolution was a heck of a deal if you were ok with the sound.

(I thought the sound was inferior, but anything less than a QSI or Phoenix sounds bad to me, even the European decoders are not up to par, because of lesser quality sound files, and old technology sound systems).

So the Revo had a bright future if they had continued sound file development, and the USB upgrader hardware was available, but clearly something was wrong, and I believe it was too low volume and an artificially low price, it seems that a lot of hope was hanging on the HO line.

Coincidentally, I installed an HO Revo system in an eggliner today, have not hooked up the lights, but it did remind me of the silly cab mapped to the loco software, but that’s a long story why it’s so stupid, and I’m actually part of the story (luckily not the stupid part ha ha).

Greg

#107

OK. So, if I wanted to replace the Revolution, what would I use that’s in the market today? Wireless control, decent sound and range…what would I need?

#108

The Revo sound was definitely not as good as Phoenix or QSI. So it seems the market place thought the Revo sound sucked.

Trying to buy your way into the market by having an artificially low price, if that was the case, is fraught with danger. You had better be sure you are successful or it is throwing good money after bad putting it to market at too low a price.

IMHO it was suicide trying to take on DCC in the smaller scales. It would probably have been a more successful business if Polk had concentrated on making it compatible with DCC instead of trying to compete with DCC.

#109

The sound quality may not have been as big of an issue as the delayed promised ability to upgrade the sounds. Different people perceive sound differently. What sounds like doo doo to one person, sounds pretty darn good to another. For example, I cant stand MP3s, because there is no depth to the music, but others think they sound great. But, like Bob said, broken promises can really sour peoples’ taste for any product.

#110

Greg (or others with DCC experience),

Is the dead rail system by Tam Valley just as simply as plugging in a “wireless receiver” to a DCC decoder, and no need for a command station? Looking at the Tam Valley illustration it looks like you still need a ‘base station’. If that is true, how would this work in the outdoor environment? I thinking of tradition RC that is flexible (ie you can walk around your train with it), but with this it seems that the command or base station would have to remain in wireless range of the locomotive. So is that 100’, 50’, etc? It makes since indoors because the range isn’t that great, but outdoors it seems that it would be a problem? Or are there wireless DCC throttles that combine the cab and the command station together? If so, you would still have to plug in the transmitter? Or am I completely missing something here?

FYI, over on the MRH thread about the realistic control stands, they are looking for Beta testers… Someone with a lot of DCC experience and JMRI might be interested in contacting them… Hint, hint Greg…(http://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-wink.gif)

#111

As I understand it, you still need the command station and DCC cab(s).

Those cabs would of course have to be R/C to gain the walkaround capability.

The command station is only used to tell the transmitter part what to do. The transmitter will broadcast to all locos.

Anyone any idea on costs?

R/C DCC cab(s) + Command station + TX + RX + DCC decoders in locos.

#112

The picture above is correct.

Basically you take ANY DCC system, and take what goes to the rails and make it over the air.

Then you take a receiver that takes that over the air signal and feeds it to ANY DCC decoder. This receiver can run from track or battery power and it also puts out enough current to run the DCC decoder which connects to the loco as usual.

Don’t get confused with a DCC system that has wireless throttles, that is wireless from the throttles to the command station.

The beauty of this is that you can use ANY DCC system (you pick your DCC system, throttles, capability, cost, etc.) and then you can use any DCC decoder in the loco.

You have maximum flexibility, and you are using a standard that won’t evaporate with 7 days warning.

Greg

#113

I don’t understand why they felt it necessary to even bother adding sound. There was no need, when you can easily add on a Phoenix sound board. They had a good r/c system but sound is a horse of a different color. Even if you get the electronics right, you still have to have the sound files to go with it, and you need them now, not “someday”. And even if you have the sounds, suppose someone wants something else? Or they don’t want sound at all? Then they’re stuck paying for a sound system they don’t want, just to get the r/c they DO want.

They should have just stuck with making a quality r/c system and leave sound to others.

#114

a number of things…

first, they added sound without increasing the price, so it became a great deal for the people that were happy with the sound, and no more expensive for those who did not… I can’t find fault with that… IF the selling price represented enough profit to keep the business viable.

My theory is that the Revo was not profitable enough to continue production.

But offering a sound system with little or no variety, and no chance to change or upgrade made it a dead end.

Greg

#115

Tony Walsham said:

As I understand it, you still need the command station and DCC cab(s).

Those cabs would of course have to be R/C to gain the walkaround capability.

The command station is only used to tell the transmitter part what to do. The transmitter will broadcast to all locos.

Anyone any idea on costs?

R/C DCC cab(s) + Command station + TX + RX + DCC decoders in locos.

No wonder the Revolution took off. I didn’t realize I would need all that.

#116

I bought into the Revolution (6 at this time) BECAUSE of the built in sound. I find it perfectly acceptable to me. (http://largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-wink.gif)

#117

I’m riding the same train that Bruce and Joe and others are on, we want basic control, sound, at a price that doesn’t break the bank and something that doesn’t require a PHD in electronics to install and operate.

That is why I was looking into the Revo, it was a relatively simple affordable system that offered basic sound and was easy to install.

I have been using a TE for years now and it is great. I have 2 diesels with old Dallee boards in them. I can’t ring the bell or blow the horn so I was looking forward to the upgrade of the Revo so I could do that.

This is a real blow to the folks who are looking for a basic system and now my TE seems to be losing its range. I hope its the batteries and not a sign of impending death.

#118

Joe.

I daresay the Revo sound was acceptable to many people.

With the never ending advances of technology, the consumer today quite rightly expects more bang for their $$$$. The major manufacturers are at it hammer and tongs trying to outdo the opposition. That requires huge capital investment with a sometimes problematic outcome.
The Revo promised much for the future, but sadly nothing ever happened with upgrading of files.
So Revo just got left behind. The potential customer base must have just dwindled further and further until the plug simply had to be pulled.

In today’s competitive market I guess if you don’t dominate the market you are fated to ultimately fail.

Me, I would rather be a big fish in a little pond, than a little fish in a big pond. That is why I concentrate on the Live Steam market and don’t try and compete in the overall battery R/C market. I get quite enough peripheral battery R/C business thank you very much from the Live Steam customer base. Many of whom have a sparky or to two as well. Especially little diesels.

#119

The steam sounds on the Revolution were OK. I would have liked to be able to add more whistles and bells. The diesel sound…Alcos and EMDs should have different sounds, and with the variety of horns in the 1:1 world, it would have been nice to add more horn choices.

Oh well. Looks like I will have to get a second job, so I can get all the Phoenix boards I will need.

#120

Greg,

Thanks for the explanation on the dead rail system. So without the command station the whole system is ‘dead’. Do you think there might be a point where the command station and cabs will be combined into one unit?

Craig