It seems that dealers in Vancouver are searching high and wide for Aristo track in stock at distributors in the East.
Several have bought out everything available in Toronto, during the last few days; at the OLD PRICE.
Anyone out West, should look to see if their dealers are passing on the savings, or ripping you off....I just heard of this, an hour ago.Wendell Hanks said:
What are YOUR conclusions?My “cost analysis” of our hobby includes these conclusions:
1 - LGB of America will not produce any products until the who-owns-what topic is resolved. LGB of Germany is in the same position. Any product advertising at this point is to keep the brand alive;
2 - IF Marklin, or anyone else, buys LGB, I doubt they will manufacturer and market the vast menu of products shown in LGB’s catalogues;
3 - The amount of time it will take to sort out who-has-what and will-they-give-it-to-us means LGB is will be a brand name for a limited line of products;
4 - IF Bachmann produces a fully TESTED (Did I say Dave Goodson?), reliable, highly detailed, K27 loco that will handle 8 diameter curves, Bachmann can gain the reputation and secure the advantage of pricing when LGB’s shelves run dry.
The following is how that applies to my scenario:
1 - I don’t really care how long it takes to sort out the LGB mess, it will get sorted out. Any LGB product advertising at this point is just “vapour trails”.
2 - I sincerly hope that whoever acquires what is to be acquired will, as a first measure, tighten up the product line. One can’t be everything to everybody and the last thing one can afford in today’s market is the “me too” routine, which was a specialty with LGB. Does GG-1 ring a bell? Or the RhB Ge 4/4’ and Ge 6/6" which were announced at the NTF 2007. Strictly coincidental that Kiss had already produced those? There are examples galore where the “me too” was a knee jerk reaction to the competition’s announced projects. OTOH when Brawa pre-empted the Richters in a big way with their complete RhB steam train, there was enough screaming and hollering to be heard far and wide.
3 - There will always be those who buy LGB strictly because of the name.
4 - Bachmann’s 1:20.3 line doesn’t address the same market, nor does AMS compete with LGB. If and when LGBoA produces anything it will be met with much scrutiny by everyone but the most rabid RBBers and Ventilators.
Criteria: Price relative to quality (the average GRRer); versatility of prototype followed (the kitbashers and manglers); adherence to prototype (the modelers). If by chance they hit the mark on those (“show me” time!) that would be a good thing and an indication that they actually learned something. We shall see!
Apart from the above: I have two Kiss engines on order, together with what I have, and what I need to kitbash, that will be a good mix to handle the traffic on my RhB. The track I use is Canadian ties together with Australian Code215 brass and Llagas Creek 215 Nickelsilver rail, the turnouts I build myself with 215 rail. The cars are a merry mix of different mfgs, kitbashes and scratches.
If I would have wanted an instant so-so RhB then I would have just bought all the stuff LGB used to produce and be done.
H-J - you pointed out alternative track -
Aristo-Craft; USA-Trains; Thiel - yuppers, heard of all of them.
Heyn; GMTS; Revalda; Scheba; Trainli; Lebu.
Never heard of them.
Accucraft; Sunset Valley; Peco;
Yuppers, but only heard of those three - Gartenbahn-team is unknown here in UK, as is Wenz Modellbau.
Just to see, I asked a few folks in the G1MRA. All agreed with me.
Where do you find these odd makes of track?
How many of these German/Swiss [?] track makes are available in USA or Canada?
tac
How many of these German/Swiss [?] track makes are available in USA or Canada?
tac
Open or black market?
As any thing else in the great land of ours prices are going to go up. Fact of life just like gas we will gripe like heck and still buy. I’m good to go with what I have . As they say you pay to play. If you don’t want to play you get out. Thats life. Later RJD
Prices going up is normal. I will agree. When inflation hits double digits there is a problem with the economy and it indicates that the governments are not doing their job adequately. Generally when you see inflation and the economy under control you also see wages following suit. When I see my necessities (and I don’t mean trains) doubling in price, but my government says the inflation rate is only 3%, thus bases their Social Security increases on that, I’ve been lied to and cheated. Unless someone with more ethics that what we have in Washington right now does something to stop the upward spiraling prices, this countries economy…and eventually the world economy will go into a tailspin that will result in a depression like we’ve never seen before.
Fred Mills said:Fred, why not? Accucraft's Ks (even the K-37) negotiate 4' radius curves. I'll agree, they look a might silly doing so, but they do. The only compromise that I found on Accucraft's K-37 was the lack of flanges on the center two drivers, where the prototype had flanges. There's no reason in my mind to expect Bachmann's loco to need more.
...If you are hoping for a 1:20.3 scale K27, from B'mann, that will negotiate an 8 foot diameter curve; you must be really drowning in LGB mentality...
Later,
K
Terry A de C Foley said:
H-J - you pointed out alternative track -Aristo-Craft; USA-Trains; Thiel - yuppers, heard of all of them.
Heyn; GMTS; Revalda; Scheba; Trainli; Lebu.
Never heard of them.
Accucraft; Sunset Valley; Peco;
Yuppers, but only heard of those three - Gartenbahn-team is unknown here in UK, as is Wenz Modellbau.
Just to see, I asked a few folks in the G1MRA. All agreed with me.
Where do you find these odd makes of track?
How many of these German/Swiss [?] track makes are available in USA or Canada?
tac
www.ovgrs.org
Lebu direct from the factory (they export to the USA as well as Australia http://www.zueriwerk.ch/Images/pdf/LEBU-Preisliste%20Export.pdf)
Most of the makes listed have been reviewed in the GARTENBAHNprofi. Wenz-Modellbau is a new to me, too http://wenz-modellbau.eshop.t-online.de/epages/Store.sf/?ObjectPath=/Shops/Shop00671/Categories/2m
Revalda has been producing 332 stainless for quite some time (1990) http://www.revalda.ch/revaldagleissystemsortiment.html
Scheba http://www.schurer-online.de/scheba/sch.htm
Remember I wrote:
HJ said:and I'm not the judge if the UK does or doesn't belong to Europe.
Of course it is aimed at the European buyer, but in any case here are the names of the mfgs:
Using the mfg’s name in Google will lead one to the source.
Uh, Kevin, not sure anymore of the exact diameter, but I’ve had a whole lot of BIG brass locos through here in the past, and remember distinctly the absolute inability to traverse my 1600 curves in the shed.
Something about the corner of the tender impacting the corner of the cab and knocking either the tender off the track or the front end of the loco off.
Hans-Joerg Mueller said:Using the manufacturer's name only works if you KNOW the manufacturer's name.
[Using the mfg's name in Google will lead one to the source.
As I noted, I have never heard of most of them. Nor, it seems, had you. 
Maybe you get stuff cheap over in the Rockies, but here in UK - it is NOT part of the Eurozone/Euro currency system, Thiel track is 30% more expensive than LGB used to be. I’ve never seen any of it.
Please note that transferring funds from UK to Europe is subject to a Can$60 transaction fee on every transfer. THAT crimps your style before you add the price, shipping and our wonderful 17.5% on the sum total of all costs. A $150.00 Thiel switch can end up costing almost $250 on the doorstep.
Snot worth it, with Peco and Tenmille and Cliff Barker on the end of a phone call here in UK for those who want their products.
I am not going down the ‘Gartenbahnprofi’ route…
Best wishes from the so-far unflooded East Anglia 
tac
www.ovrgs.org
Terry A de C Foley said:Hans-Joerg Mueller said:Using the manufacturer's name only works if you KNOW the manufacturer's name.
[Using the mfg's name in Google will lead one to the source.As I noted, I have never heard of most of them. Nor, it seems, had you.
…
Hard to do track planning without knowing who makes what.
Ric Golding said:Bought track last week (I needed some, and Sydney retailer held his price on existing stock). Not buying any track this week. No plans to buy track next week, month or year. All is well.
Didn't buy any track last week. Not buying any track this week. No immediate plans to buy track next week. All is well.
Yep I’m good to go as I bought my track before the increase and should not need any more. and =D Later RJD
I bought all the track I’ll need a couple months ago…all of 2 turnouts…
I guess I’ll keep an eye on the mineral market. If the price of copper goes down by 75% then we can expect a halving of the price of track.
If all goes well I may start on my dream layout next year. That’s about 400’ of track. Ouch! I guess I’d better start cutting back on the scotch now … well, maybe tomorrow.
Cut back on the scotch? Good lord, man, have you lost your mind?
Bob; you said it for me…cutting back on good whisky, is a sin…of course the lad might be drinking that blended stuff.!!!
Bob McCown said:Why??? It costs less than milk!!!!!!!
Cut back on the scotch? Good lord, man, have you lost your mind?
Curmudgeon said:
Uh, Kevin, not sure anymore of the exact diameter, but I've had a whole lot of BIG brass locos through here in the past, and remember distinctly the absolute inability to traverse my 1600 curves in the shed.Something about the corner of the tender impacting the corner of the cab and knocking either the tender off the track or the front end of the loco off.
A 1600 curve is smaller than 4’ radius, though. Arouond 7’ 8" diameter, if I recall. And if it’s early 1600 curve, then it could be smaller than what LGB stated it was. The stuff I’ve got (c. 1980) is around 7’ 2" diameter. (And only took 11 pieces for a complete circle! Someone in the track department must have accidentally grabbed the modeling department’s rubber ruler.) It doesn’t surprise me that larger locos would have a bit of difficulty. Does that mean they would fit free and clear around a 4’ minimum? I can’t say. It depends on how close the tender is coupled to the locomotive. If it’s on the rear-most hole in the drawbar, then it’s got a good chance of clearing. The tender may be a scale 3’ behind the loco, but that’s a common compromise in every scale.
Later,
K
Kevin Strong said:
TOC,A 1600 curve is smaller than 4’ radius, though. Arouond 7’ 8" diameter, if I recall. And if it’s early 1600 curve, then it could be smaller than what LGB stated it was. The stuff I’ve got (c. 1980) is around 7’ 2" diameter. (And only took 11 pieces for a complete circle! Someone in the track department must have accidentally grabbed the modeling department’s rubber ruler.) It doesn’t surprise me that larger locos would have a bit of difficulty. Does that mean they would fit free and clear around a 4’ minimum? I can’t say. It depends on how close the tender is coupled to the locomotive. If it’s on the rear-most hole in the drawbar, then it’s got a good chance of clearing. The tender may be a scale 3’ behind the loco, but that’s a common compromise in every scale.
Later,K
A 1600 curve is 1175mm rad (46.26"), hmmmmmmmmm LGB had a separate Gummi ruler for the track?