Large Scale Central

Cost status of our hobby

General Discussion
#1

Are these the significant questions whose answers will accurately indicate the future and present cost status of our hobby?

1 - Brass and stainless track:
What is the current availability of LGB, Aristo, and USA track in mailorder houses? Is the stock easily replenished per the current demand? Is there any increase in demand driven either by need vs. fear of future non-availability? Is there a substantial quantity of all forms of track in LGB of America’s warehouse(s)? If so, is there any legal restriction on their distributing it to dealers?

2 - New locos and rolling stock:
Is the creation of new products currently limited to Aristo, USA, Bachmann, and Accucraft because of legal strictures on LGB Germany and LGB of America?

Reading the Big Train Club member e-mail’s on LGB’s status gave clear impetus to these questions.

Wendell

#2

One can only give an answer based on his limited knowledge but here’s a try:

LGB track is in short supply and there is darn little in the LGBoA warehouse.

Arisocraft track is in stock and will continue in stock and is being produced regularly.

USAT track seems to be getting somewhat short at the USAT warehouse. The only straight track available there is 1’ sections. Switches are available and 4’ 5’ 8’ and 10’ curves are available. Expect their prices to rise too…but how much nobody knows yet. I also don’t know what their production schedule is but expect it to continue once price haggling is straightened out.

I have no clue as to Accucraft’s availability on track.

There is always Aluminum rail and batteries.

As far as American outline trains go, I would look no farther than Accucraft, Aristocraft, Bachmann and USA Trains at this point. LGB products are dead in the water until the current debacle is straightened out. A gut feeling tells me that in future years we may be able to look to Piko for some American outline products.

My personal assessment is that the remainder of 2007 looks gloomy for new products but that there will be an improvement for 2008, and 2009 should be a banner year…providing the rest of the economy doesn’t go to hell in the mean while.

#3

Post deleted.

tac

#4

May I ask, why is everyone so worried?

There is track available, there is lots of motive power and rolling stock.

It isn’t as if the guy with the most “toys” wins, is it?

OK, back to spreading sand on plywood!

#5

Still struggling, sitting here in the Midwest with too much food, too many projects to work on and entirely too much abundance of the good life. We will continue to struggle forward making plans to visit and entertain friends and acquaintances, while celebrating the life we have been blessed with. Life does go on. I heard they quit making the Packard, but there are still automobiles. Adjust and adapt, the only thing not subject to change is that everything is always subject to change. :wink:

#6

Warren -

Thanks for your take on the questions I posed.

Your estimate that Piko may be a source for new products spikes my curiosity: Did not LGB manufacture the Piko European loco that was advertised in Garden Railways? If correct, could LGB of Germany continue to make products for Piko under the court regs – the premise being work for employees and reduction in debt??

I hope that when the final bell for the LGB saga (there is one, is there not?) you and HJ will compile a chronology for those of us wanting to satisfy historical curiosity – in addition, for me, to use this event in the classroom.

Suggested topics:
– A study of the free market in and out of operation;
– How jurisprudence in two countries is and is not compatible;
– How a corporation can or cannot separate itself and the consequences;
– How investors can measure their influence;
– The increased role or reduced role taken by competitiors; and
– What the role of the consumer has in such a discretionary and limited hobby.

Thanks again for your on-spot response.

Selah,

Wendell

#7

Wendell,

No, LGB didn’t produce the Taurus, Piko produces the Taurus. Piko will also produce the BR218 Diesel.

Yes, Piko used to sub-contract to LGB, amongst other things the LCE.

PS Yes there are people who will utilize their equipment to the max i.e run injection moulding machines two or three shifts. There are plenty of jobbing opportunities in Germany and there are people who make full use of them. No, LGB wasn’t one of them.

#8

Wendell,
track will always be available ‘at a price’. Four years ago when building my current road from stainless rail, I was a little dismayed at the all up cost for the rail. However, I bit the bullet and made the purchases required. To consider starting over again today would cost me twice the amount for the same amount of track. This would make me re-evaluate both my priorities and my needs. I would be very tempted at current prices to look for alternatives, both in track and in the motive power used (I think that battery would have been given more consideration).

         Piko are too heavily invested in the current Taurus derivatives and the upcoming diesel release to not progress further with the modified standard gauge German trains.  As reported on another forum,  ownership of the tooling for the current LGB German standard gauge locomotives and rolling stock are 'in question'.  This would enable Piko to take action to contract production from the owner of the tooling,  to maintain support and demand for its own locomotives in that 'scale'.  Piko has been contacted by Lehmann for several releases and two more releases, based on the Piko sourced LCE tooling,  were catalogued to be released this year by the newly formed Schontag Lehmann,  before the second insolvency was made known.



         New releases from the major manufacturers will negate any negative impact from the demise of Lehmann and I fear cause many to switch allegiance,  spending their Lehmann dollars on other manufacturers' products.  Failure to release new products and seeming inability to support product on the market, due no longer support from the ex-parent company,   may hamper LGBoA efforts to rebuild itself to regain consumer confidence.  My suggestion is that anyone even considering a LGB Genesis purchase should not delay.  Once the current stock have been sold then it may be a long time before new stock is available.
#9

Terry, my “gloomy forcast” for the remainder of the year 2007 is based on products for the masses…not limited addition items that most of us can’t afford. Thus, here’s how I would rate your mentioned products:

The USA trains hoppers would be repaints of an already existing (70t) car. (Aristo makes the 100t version) Technically these are nothing new.

The E8’s are already behind us and thus not part of the “rest of the year”.

The following are not affordable by the masses and thus can’t be considered:
Allegheny
Royal Hudson
Accucraft Connie
EBT Mike
2-10-2
K37

In fact the above locomotives could be considered as part of the “gloom”. Nice locomotives that only a select few can afford and very few can run on their layouts. These are nothing more than teasers.

The bright spot for the remainder of 2007 is going to be the new Accucraft D&RGW passenger cars. They are nice looking, something many people want and will be affordable. The only question left is “Will Accucraft be able to get them out before the end of the year?” If they succeed there will be some very happy people come Christmas…:slight_smile: :slight_smile: As I said, I’m looking towards a much brighter 2008 and 2009…at least for the masses.

#10

Don’t forget the 0-6-0 switcher with tender by Accucraft, steam and electric.

While I hate rising prices as much as everyone else, the track is basically a one-time investment, and I’m spending much more on rolling stock and locomotives, and I don’t buy the expensive stuff… no loco over $300 so far… except the mallet.

So, I can’t get wrapped up in track costs and doom and gloom. Also, more and more inexpensive locos are being made, Aristo and USAT notably, the S4 is great, for example, the E8’s are not expensive.

No doom and gloom here…

Regards, Greg

#11

Post deleted.

tac

#12

Terry, I hope you don’t take this wrong way, but, someone who has a number of live steam locos such as the Garratt and Large LGB locos, and who has been brought up with Gauge#1 locos since the age of three, comes from a socio-economic background that only a very few of us can imagine. Let alone aspire to, and even less likely to achieve.
Absolutely no offense, but, your list of what may be of interest to the masses is way off base.

The new Bachmann K27, even at a discounted price, will be a major purchase for many of the LS’ers both on this website and others.
Sure there are a lot of LS’ers with enormous disposable income. They are the ones who will repeatedly purchase the more expensive items. They also set up the humungous layouts and consume conspicuously.

To me locos and rolling stock for the masses are more likely to be made and sold by AristoCraft, USA Trains and Bachmann.

#13

Post deleted.

tac

#14
Terry A de C Foley said:
SNIP Sure there are a lot of LS'ers with enormous disposable income. They are the ones who will repeatedly purchase the more expensive items. They also set up the humungous layouts and consume conspicuously.'

So if there are so few, why do we see so many of them?


How many of each of the expensive die cast and brass fabricated locos do you think are made and sold. It will be in the hundreds. In a very rich land of what, 260+ million people I don’t think it would be too hard to find that many affluent people who can afford to repeatedly spend what they do on their chosen hobby.

You do know how many LS Bachmann, AC or USAT models have to be made to keep the costs down to what the AVERAGE Joe can afford? The builders have to sell somewhere between 5,000 and 7,000 before they make proper money. Not the hundreds of the expensive equipment.
It is these latter AVERAGE Joe customers who form the bulk of the LS buying public. Not the former.

Warren is correct when he said that:

Allegheny
Royal Hudson
Accucraft Connie
EBT Mike
2-10-2
K37

…are not for the masses.

#15

I would say that the club that I belong to is fairly representative of the large scalers in this area. As for expensive locomotives: within the group, there are 2 K27’s and a C21 from Accucraft, a couple Hudsons (one bought used from the coast) a Big Boy and my LGB Mike which I bought with money I inherited. There are no live steam, 1 fairly large layout and one monster layout (he’s single and it’s on Mom’s property) Most of us are quite happy with our plastic loco’s from the big 3 and struggle to be able to afford them. At least half the club doesn’t even have layouts and relies on running their trains on others.

To be honest, Terry, if I had to pay the price you Brits do for trains the likelihood that I would be in “G” Scale would be slim to none. I might be able to afford a small “O” Scale layout…or have to be satisfied with HO.

Oh, Terry, to get to the smilies, look just below the window you type in and you will see a thing that says “BBCode: on”, click on that and scroll to the bottom of the window that opens. You’ll find smilies there.

#16
Warren Mumpower said:
I would say that the club that I belong to is fairly representative of the large scalers in this area. As for expensive locomotives: within the group, there are 2 K27's and a C21 from Accucraft, a couple Hudsons (one bought used from the coast) a Big Boy and my LGB Mike which I bought with money I inherited. There are no live steam, 1 fairly large layout and one monster layout (he's single and it's on Mom's property) Most of us are quite happy with our plastic loco's from the big 3 and struggle to be able to afford them. At least half the club doesn't even have layouts and relies on running their trains on others.

To be honest, Terry, if I had to pay the price you Brits do for trains the likelihood that I would be in “G” Scale would be slim to none. I might be able to afford a small “O” Scale layout…or have to be satisfied with HO.

Oh, Terry, to get to the smilies, look just below the window you type in and you will see a thing that says “BBCode: on”, click on that and scroll to the bottom of the window that opens. You’ll find smilies there.


I think that LS is like any other hobby, you spent what fits your budget. And if one chooses carefully - like freelance, freelance, freelance - one can even build a model railroad in the garden without going stone broke. Besides there is scratchbuilding, starting with structures and …

BTW why would Terry need smilies? :confused: :smiley:

#17

oops.

tac

#18
Terry A de C Foley said:
Warren Mumpower said:
...to get to the smilies, look just below the window you type in and you will see a thing that says "[u]BBCode[/u]: on", click on that and scroll to the bottom of the window that opens. You'll find smilies there.
Thanks, Warren.

tac
www.ovgrs.com


Terry,

Did you notice the post in which Fr.Fred reminded you that the www.ovgrs.com won’t work, the proper address is www.ovgrs.org ??

#19
Hans-Joerg Mueller said:
Terry A de C Foley said:
Warren Mumpower said:
...to get to the smilies, look just below the window you type in and you will see a thing that says "[u]BBCode[/u]: on", click on that and scroll to the bottom of the window that opens. You'll find smilies there.
Thanks, Warren.

tac
www.ovgrs.com


Terry,

Did you notice the post in which Fr.Fred reminded you that the www.ovgrs.com won’t work, the proper address is www.ovgrs.org ??


ah.

Thanks, H-J.

tac

#20

Like everything except salaries, it’s going up.

Wonder if I should go over to the true-value and buy his k&s brass metal display :smiley: