Large Scale Central

Continious run on a dogbone

Track and Trestles
#1

OK so was daydreaming about my future layout and thinking about sipping whiskey in the upper part of the watchman’s tower while I watch my trains go round and round, then it hit me how will this work? I have been convinced that a dog bone layout is the way to go because it offers point to point operation while still allowing continuous running. However, all this talk about switches and derailment got me thinking how can a dog bone offer continuous hands off running without switching the switches. I mean you go through the switch and then when you come back the switch will be in the wrong position.

Now in HO I did this with no issue. The wheels simply forced the switch into position as it went through. Maybe I was lucky but it worked. Will this do this in large scale? Or is someone going to have to be manning the two switches?

#2

The pure doggone requires no turnouts.

#3

A pure dogbone is an oval pinched in on the sides. It requires no switches. If you run track power and have only one main line and two reversing loops, you will need polarity swapping devices at both ends. (http://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-wink.gif)

#4

The upper level of my railroad is a very modified dog-bone. No switches are needed.

Dennis

#5

Steve Featherkile said:

The pure doggone requires no turnouts.

Yep

This is how my layout is setup however I’m adding passing sidings

#6

Let me clarify then, It is not a dog bone but a double reversing loop. Battery power not track power. The only issue will be turnouts. So let me rephrase the question

On a double reversing loop with two turnouts one for each, does this preclude continuous running due to the need to switch the two turnouts like I am suspecting.

On this track plan I have cooked up it is effectively a double reversing loop. Even though there are three loops two of them act the same. At the top the two loops are connected by a short mainline that requires two turnouts. Now since the turnouts will be in the wrong position when the train comes back around I assume I have a problem with continuous running. To solve this problem I am thinking I need to modify this into a dog bone if I want continuous hands free operation? then if I want to I can add a crossover to switch between the two mainlines?

#7

Devon, The switches can be automated with magnets on the bottom of the locos or other electrical dodads. I had my railroad setup that way originally but got tired of the derailments. I find the dog-bone much easier to use.

Dennis

#8

I have 2 reverse loops with a single track mainline. I run track power, but we can forget that part since you are battery. I set up my switches as spring switches, by taking some of the tension out of the springs in the Aristo manual switch machines. Now, this means I cannot throw those switches to the other route, since the machine no longer works as designed. But, if I had replaced those springs with softer springs, I could still throw the switches, but still have them act as spring switches. Spring switches, meaning the points are held by spring pressure, and the wheels of the rolling stock can “push the points over” and they will spring back.

#9

David Russell said:

Steve Featherkile said:

The pure doggone requires no turnouts.

Yep

This is how my layout is setup however I’m adding passing sidings

OMG - Switches on the CVRR??? A slippery slope my friend. Very slippery.

#10

Devon - Depending on the weight of your rolling stock, what worked for you in HO may work for you in Large Scale. I use standard Aristo manual switch machines and all of my locos and cars will get trough them set the wrong way by pushing the points over, then springing back using the stock spring. Shawn V. tried this and his lighter rolling stock wouldn’t do it. He came up with a plan that works. I can’t recall what it was.

There is always the Tom Ruby safety pin method with no switch machine needed…

#11

OK So it can be done. If I were to take this on I would like to keep operation of the turnout. That way during operations I can choose to select either mainline or branch line or during continuous running can just let them go. So reading above this has to do with the springs. So I will need to think on this a bit. The other option (without going with magnets) is to go dog bone. That idea intrigues me and then adding a crossover between the two parallel main lines.

#12

Devon I can set you up with a spring switch that can either allow slip by or flop all the way over, depending on hole placement.

With the left hole placement now; it’s set for slip by on the closed side. See where the dirt shows the other placement? That’s for flop over operation. It’s either or, can’t have both. I use spring steel aka music wire. I think it blends in better than the Aristo wire.

The key to this switch is one should need to slightly compress to insert in the holes, thus it’s always trying to open or straighten. This powers the throw.

I did not design this, I remember from 50 odd years ago.

John

#13

Devon, I’m somewhat confused… not sure about the magnets, but if you make a spring switch (as described on the long drawn out switch thread) you don’t need any electrics…

And to refresh me, you are going battery right?

Thanks, Greg

#14

Craig this will be battery power. The very first plan was a double loop for continuous operation. I was lead in the direction of a dog bone for more of a point to point operation. I think my confusion came in that I thought a double reversing loop with one mainline was a dogbone. I understand now the difference. But I came up with a double reversing loop design ( forget the third loop for now). But as I was day dreaming that brought me her.

One of my requirements is the ability to have hands free continuous operation. But like the idea of point to point operation.

So the question is on a double reversing loop can one have both the option for hands free continuous operation and manual control over the turnouts for operations.

Or would it be more practical to go to a true dog bone for continuous operation and include a crossover between parallel mains for more point to point operations

#15

I get the spring switch. But is there the ability to throw that switch manually. Unless I am missing something it looks as if that is not an option.

#16

Sure, the end of a broomstick works well.

There’s tons of options, do you need remote control? Then a switch motor that does not care what position it’s in and provides low resistance to moving… I think the aristo ones do this, but they are pretty poor.

I’d make it a spring switch with the ability to reverse it manually.

Greg

#17

So the question is on a double reversing loop can one have both the option for hands free continuous operation and manual control over the turnouts for operations.

yes, you can.

using the LGB electric switch throws.

obviously, by using wires and control buttons, you can operate them.

if you do nothing, the trains simply go in the direction, the switch is set. coming back out of the loop, they throw open the switch. as a result, when the train aproaches the loop the next time, it will go the other way round the loop.

rinse and repeat.

i ignore, if the electric throw mecanisms of other brands would/could do the same.

edit:

if you mean “manual control” literally, use the LGB nmanual switch throwers.

they will be cut open by the trains as well, when these come back out of the loop, but they switch back to the direction, they were set. so the trains will always travel the loops in the same direction.

#18

If you are operating and following your train I see no reason other than esthetics that you can’t just reach down and flip the points one way or the other using the toggled spring set up in previous posts. Use the KISS principle (keep it simple stupid) having a switch machine may look better but it’s also something else to go wrong or trip over, hit with a weed whacker, snag with a hose, etc, etc.

#19
Devon Sinsley said:
I get the spring switch. But is there the ability to throw that switch manually. Unless I am missing something it looks as if that is not an option.

Yes. This is the simplest way to accomplish your goal. John C’s photo shows what I’ve been using for years. I don’t use that style spring for “single direction springing through”. However, I found it works great as a “flip-flipper”. If you don’t mind the train going a different way through the reverse loop each pass this will work great. You can set the spring tighter because only the locomotive must force over the points. Once forced over, they stay there and the rest of the train has no resistance going over the points. The next time around the train will go down the path it came from and then on the way out of the reverse loop the engines will force the points to the other orientation.
By hand you can manually pull the points in either direction and they will stay there.

#20

Greg Elmassian said:

Sure, the end of a broomstick works well.

There’s tons of options, do you need remote control? Then a switch motor that does not care what position it’s in and provides low resistance to moving… I think the aristo ones do this, but they are pretty poor.

I’d make it a spring switch with the ability to reverse it manually.

Greg

Sorry I called you Craig I realized I answered the wrong person when I read your response. No I don’t need remote control so I get where your going with the broom handle. I thought the spring switch would always stay in one position but if it can be manually moved and stay in either position and then spring back when the loco goes through it in the “wrong” position then that is more than acceptable.