Large Scale Central

Consisting A/W?

Problem Solving
#1

I can not get my Air Wire to consist, I tried everything. Help!

I was down at Marty’s and Paul Burch got it to work.

#2

Don why not try to get a hold of Paul he may remember what you did wrong or just tell you what to do. Paul is the Guru of A/W

cheers richard

#3

Don, are you looking for a step by step guide, or someone to visit your house?

What happens when you follow the directions in the manual?

Greg

#4

Greg,

When I follow the directions, I get the lead unit up, then hit consist nothing happens. It’s should say build consist, nothing.

I know I’m just doing something wrong.

Don

#5

Don bear with me I’m going to ask some questions: first are you using a t5000, Sec.when you say you have entered the lead loc. do you have control so you can run it forward or backwards? thats it for now. Thought of one more does speed and direction show up on the screen?

cheers richard

#6

What throttle are you using?

Greg

#7

Call Paul…he IS the Guru of Airwire :). He will have it fixed in no time at all!

#8

Don,

There might already be a consist assigned in the throttle. Turn the throttle on, push consist,then 0,then #. That should clear it out. After that bring up your first loco and then push the consist button. It should show build consist?

#9

Paul Burch said:

Don,

There might already be a consist assigned in the throttle. Turn the throttle on, push consist,then 0,then #. That should clear it out. After that bring up your first loco and then push the consist button. It should show build consist?

Thanks Paul never even thought of a saved consist. I never save.

cheers

Richard

#10

Guy’s,

I’m using the T5000.

Heres what I’m doing,Turn on the T5000, Push loco memory store, bring up 723, set direction,push # then CONS.

Then I don’t get Build Consist.

Don

#11

Don,

Are you trying to use the same consist that we built at Marty’s? If you are using the same T5000 then the consist is probably still in the throttle unless you deleted it at some point. Try this, turn on the throttle, push consist, then enter(ent) . That should activate the consist if it is still there. The screen should show the lead loco number (address) and a small “cons” in upper left corner. Feel free to call me and I will walk you through it.

#12

Paul, if you don’t mind a few questions: Is only one consist “Stored” at a time in the AW system?

Is this basic/universal consisting, or advanced consisting?

Thanks, Greg

#13

Greg what do you mean by Is this basic/universal consisting, or advanced consisting ?

thanks richard

#14

At the bottom of this page:

http://www.elmassian.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=106:dcc-systems&catid=55:dcc-general&Itemid=131

I have my best attempt at explaining consisting. Since AirWire uses DCC commands, this applies, although I don’t believe they support advanced consisting.

Greg

#15

thank you Greg now i know what your asking. i know what i would say to you but lets wait and see what Paul says. The hardest part I find is getting all the loc. to play nice. the dropin seem to be the worst, miles apart.

cheers Richard

#16

Greg,

The T5000 is old style. Consists for all Airwire decoders are stored in the throttle, not the decoders. The T5000 can store one consist. The older T9000 could store four consists as I recall. The new T1300 ops throttle is also limited to one consist.

You can build a consist with up to four locos. Only the lead loco will respond to function commands like lights, horn, bell, etc. With the T5000 you can easily reverse the consist. Just push the consist button and the reverse button. The old trailing loco will now be the lead loco and respond to the function commands. Its a handy feature.

#17

So as Paul has added Only the lead loco will respond to function commands like lights, horn, bell, etc. would this by you definition also be advanced, also all you do is put in assigned number that’s it. To me it is a combination of both.

cheers richard

#18

Richard,

You are correct. Kind of hybrid.

#19

No, really not a hybrid. It’s the basic/universal consisting. Nothing more.

One key point of advanced consisting is that the consisting is “done” in the locos themselves. This means that you send a SINGLE command to the consist address, and it is received by ALL the locos in this consist.

Repeat: A single command sent controls multiple locos. So, inherently there is no limit to the number of locos in the consist. Also, since a consist address looks like a normal short address, there is no limit to the number of consists, except that they have to be addresses 1 through 127.

The AirWire does Universal consisting, by the throttle “remembering” “who” is in the consist, and sending individual commands to EACH loco in the consist. So, you can easily see that if there were 10 locos in the consist, you have to send a speed or direction command to 10 locos EACH time.

If it’s not obvious now, that would probably overload the capability of the system to send commands often enough to all the trains running, so most systems have limits. Wireless control is slower than the hardwired commands on the rails of “true” DCC so, there are indeed limits.

In the case of AirWire, you have the limits of not only the number of locos in a consist, but how many consists per throttle.

So for someone that rarely runs consists, or only one, Universal consisting is OK. Unfortunately in AirWire, you can only have one, so if you now want to run another consist you need to reprogram your throttle.

With advanced consisting, the consist “information” is stored in each loco, so they are in a consist forever, basically you could have 127 consists defined at the same time running at the same time. Also, take your locos to another layout and they are still in a consist. (there are even more advantages when it comes to sound, lights, etc.)

So there is a huge difference in performance, convenience and capability.

I’m very surprised that you can only have one consist defined in AirWire, even being limited to 4 is surprising, but it is telling, that most people using AirWire don’t run consists or use “address” consisting, where you just set all the locos the same address… (which has it’s own problems)

I’m not badmouthing AirWire, just pointing out the huge differences in capability, flexibility, convenience. Their customer base must drive the features.

I’m putting this here to educate, and also indicate that for some users, like me, all my diesels are normally in consists due to my grades, and I also use steam helpers. I need the Advanced Consisting features, I could not live with AirWire on my layout with my locomotives.

Greg

  1. Basic or address consisting - by setting all units to the same address, the DCC system has no clue if there are 1 or more decoders listening on this address. Also the locomotives have no clue they are in a consist. Any system can do this, since neither the DCC system nor the decoders in the locos “know” what is happening.

  2. Universal or “old style” consisting - this is where you tell the DCC system (command station) that you want to run locos 5 and 6 (for example) as a consist. The system then sends individual commands to EACH loco in the consist. The locomotives have no clue they are part of a consist. But the DCC system does “all the work” to send commands to each individual loco.

  3. Advanced consisting. This is where you set CV’s in the loco decoders so they have an additional “consist address” and other parameters on how the lights, bell, horn, etc. behave in consist. Once you have set these parameters in all locomotives, then you can command the consist with a SINGLE command to the consist address, which is a short address, and the DCC system does not need to know this is a consist.

#20

Gee, I’m sure glad I don’t use this system … just sayin’.