Large Scale Central

Consisting A/W?

Problem Solving
#21

Hmm…

Well, almost ALL forms of remote control we use have SOME form of consisting capability. I thought it was helpful to know about what CAN be done and some of the terminology bandied about…

Example, when Aristo was developing the Revolution, the first system had you reprogramming the loco to be able to do Universal Consisting, you actually had to go to the loco and press the programming button.

I let him know that was unacceptable for us guys that needed consisting and needed to bring a loco in and out of a consist. The next version of firmware did include a way to do this, this is when the Revolution “cab number” was born, before that it was just the loco id.

Greg

#22

Now I’m confused at the bottom of your page and I’m going to quote you “I won’t make a big list of advantages or disadvantages, but the more sophisticated features, like only the lead loco’s horn will sound, are “automatic”, and lighting works properly, only the lead loco’s headlight lights, etc… this is only true in advanced consisting.”

not saying this is not old but Airwire can do just what you said “this is only true in advanced consisting” so why is airwire not a hybrid?

cheers richard

#23

Richard, I just re-wrote and expanded that page.

See if it makes more sense now… you may have to force a reload on your browser if it cached that page. There are now detailed pro’s and con’s.

After reading it again, I suspected that what might be obvious to me might not be to others.(http://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-cool.gif)

Every form of consisting falls into only ONE of the categories. Airwire does not use the consisting address, therefore it cannot be Advanced Consisting. AirWire does not reprogram the locomotive addresses to be all the same, so it cannot be Basic / Address consisting.

AirWire is definitely Universal / Old Style consisting, where the locomotives have individual addresses, and the system duplicates commands to send the same command to each loco (although it may be smarter about the horn/bell)

Does this help?

Greg

#24

I am so glad I am a steam guy, that doesn’t double head my trains.

#25

I feel sorry for you David, what you are missing. (http://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-laughing.gif)

The look and sound of 2 steamers fighting their way up a steep grade is cool.

Greg

#26

Greg Elmassian said:

Richard, I just re-wrote and expanded that page.

See if it makes more sense now… you may have to force a reload on your browser if it cached that page. There are now detailed pro’s and con’s.

After reading it again, I suspected that what might be obvious to me might not be to others.(http://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-cool.gif)

Every form of consisting falls into only ONE of the categories. Airwire does not use the consisting address, therefore it cannot be Advanced Consisting. AirWire does not reprogram the locomotive addresses to be all the same, so it cannot be Basic / Address consisting.

AirWire is definitely Universal / Old Style consisting, where the locomotives have individual addresses, and the system duplicates commands to send the same command to each loco (although it may be smarter about the horn/bell)

Does this help?

Greg

Yes it does you removed what I quoted and that was what was confusing. I never said that Airwire was not old style consisting.(although it may be smarter about the horn/bell) also lights.

What would you call Revo?

cheers richard

#27

Revo has an intermediate step… it has loco addresses (loco id) and it has cabs which can contain multiple locos.

Since you never change the address of the loco, and you collect them by intelligence in the cab, this parallels the Universal Consisting, where the locos have no idea if they are in a consist, and the knowledge of the consist is elsewhere.

It also parallels Universal Consisting in that the controller (cab or system) would have to specifically indicate which headlight to use, and which horn to blow.

It also needs to send multiple commands to multiple locos at the same time for control, not a single command. Again this parallels the way Universal / Old Style consisting works.

Greg

#28

Greg,

With Airwire it is not “may be smarter”. Function commands are sent to the lead locomotive in a consist and not the trailing units. The consist makeup can also be reversed with the T5000 throttle with two button pushes, “cons” and “reverse knob”. It doesn’t matter if it is two,three, or four locos.

#29

Greg Elmassian said:

I feel sorry for you David, what you are missing. (http://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-laughing.gif)

The look and sound of 2 steamers fighting their way up a steep grade is cool.

Greg

Yes it is, buy my railroad is small. 2 locomotives and a decent train would be rather large on my small railroad.

#30

So Paul, you seem to be confirming that if you reverse the consist direction, the loco at the other end of the consist now becomes the lead, and all function commands are sent to it. That’s a step towards smart.

But what does the headlight on the last loco do? does it still follow the direction of the actual loco?

Also I have another question (sorry I want to learn!) I’m assuming when building a consist, you can set the “direction” of a loco within the consist.

Is there such a sense that you specify the first, the middle and the last locos? Wondering how it works in distributed power.

Thanks again Paul, just like to know, not storing ammo against AirWire… it’s clearly the most capable wireless R/C system out there.

Greg

#31

Greg, it’s my understanding from reading the destructions that you can tell a locomotive where it lives in the consist, and which way it is going. Distributed power is the same idea. It doesn’t know it’s not part of the head end.

#32

Yeah, re-read the instructions.

Funny, the manual tells you not to drop the throttle, and if you break it, it’s not warranted. I know the population is getting dumber, but I learned not to drop stuff at around age 2 ha ha.

Did not realize that there were 17 frequencies, not 16… weird.

Interesting that all locos in the consist must be on the same frequency, that is pretty limiting for a railroad that has a number of locos, which is the norm for people that want to consist.

So, I agree, from the manual, the system knows the lead and end locos and up to 2 locos in the middle.

A little weird that you cannot reverse the direction of the consist by doing the normal direction button, you have to go into the consist edit function and “flip” it to get the sense of the lead loco changed.

Looks pretty easy to add and delete locos from the consist, that is good.

Greg

#33

Greg,

We need to distinguish between reverse and reversing or flipping the consist. Just pushing the reverse knob on a T5000 will change direction of the consist. Pushing the “cons” button followed by the reverse knob will reverse the consist makeup.

And for David. I love running my two S.P. Aristo 2-8-0’s in a consist. The sound is great as they go in and out of sync.

#34

Paul Burch said:

Greg,

We need to distinguish between reverse and reversing or flipping the consist. Just pushing the reverse knob on a T5000 will change direction of the consist. Pushing the “cons” button followed by the reverse knob will reverse the consist makeup.

Paul, what is the effective difference? What changes? Trying to sus this out so I don’t stub my toe when the snow melts.

#35

I just want to add to Paul’s reply, Just pushing the reverse knob on a T5000 will change direction of the consis and the lead loc. stays the same with the light and horn and bell in it. as if you were doing switching. Pushing the “cons” button followed by the reverse knob will reverse the consist makeup and put the lead loc. at the other end, it will then have lights , horn and bell control. I use this on my B&M 300,100,301 Locs. B&M had this setup could not turn so they just switch lead.

cheers richard

#36

Greg Elmassian said:

Yeah, re-read the instructions.

How many times did you re-read it?

I know your standard is usually 3 times however you did not state that?

Kinda like looking through the magic mirror on Romper Room perhaps?

Yes three questions!

#37

Paul Burch said:

Greg,

We need to distinguish between reverse and reversing or flipping the consist. Just pushing the reverse knob on a T5000 will change direction of the consist. Pushing the “cons” button followed by the reverse knob will reverse the consist makeup.

And for David. I love running my two S.P. Aristo 2-8-0’s in a consist. The sound is great as they go in and out of sync.

Paul, I hope someday to get my 2-8-0 running. Right now she is just a shelf queen. But she is darn pretty though.

#38

Richard Beverly said:

I just want to add to Paul’s reply, Just pushing the reverse knob on a T5000 will change direction of the consis and the lead loc. stays the same with the light and horn and bell in it. as if you were doing switching. Pushing the “cons” button followed by the reverse knob will reverse the consist makeup and put the lead loc. at the other end, it will then have lights , horn and bell control. I use this on my B&M 300,100,301 Locs. B&M had this setup could not turn so they just switch lead.

cheers richard

OK, got it. I see the difference. Thanks, Richard.

#39

Yes, thanks Paul, two different functions for 2 different situations. A nice feature.

Greg

#40

Greg Elmassian said:

Interesting that all locos in the consist must be on the same frequency, that is pretty limiting for a railroad that has a number of locos, which is the norm for people that want to consist.

Greg, the transmitter can only transmit on one frequency, so all the receivers in a consist must all be on that same frequency in order to get the instructions from the transmitter. The locos in the consist all have their unique individual DCC addresses, but the frequency of the receiver must be the same across the consist. With the latest generation receivers, you change the frequency via CV, so you can easily program the specific frequency as you’re setting up the consist. You can also use Service Mode programming to change the frequency of all the locos in a consist at one time. You just have to make sure that there are no other Airwire receivers operating on that original frequency, or you’ll change those receivers’ frequencies as well.

Later,

K