Yes, that first thing looks to be a single stage air brake compressor. Yes, it would be nice to have, if the engineer wants to stop the train eventually.
That last thing, looking like a torpedo, would be a turbine electric generator, for lighting the headlight, class lights (if any) and powering any other electrics on the thing.
The stack should be straight, it will draft better that way.
David.
Copy all. I am assuming whatever I use to replace the long absent air compressor pretty much has to go where the old one used to be. Likewise, I know to considerably more careful near the generator before filing away any “flash.”
Eric
I doubt if the cane cars had air brakes, hand brakes maybe.
My Dad took 16mm movies of the cane cutting in 1950-52, researching brought them back to my mind… thanks.
Yea, many smaller operations didn’t bother with automatic brakes. So omitting the compressor and keeping the trains short, and the speeds slow, one could replicate one of those lines.
Actually, many time appliances (like compressors) were hung where the shop crew felt like hanging them, and at the next overhaul the same appliance might be hung in a different location.
Thinking I may possibly have and LGB air compressor. I agree that Cane RR’s would not have had most of what is listed. For that matter would they even have had a bell or a headlight ( light moving at night I can understand) but a bell for what?
Only asking and learning from this thread myself!
“Rooster,”
Most of the photos I have show both bell and lights. Bells appear universal, with some perched atop the sand domes and others perched between sand and steam domes. Lights appear more common than not, with many on platforms bolted just forward of the stack and jutting out over the firebox door. About a third of the photos show what looks like a little generator based on comparing the photos with my models. These seem to run perpendicular to centerline along the top of the boiler wherever they could fit (I think mine will stay put.). The air compressor issue is tougher…The Oahu Rail & Land (OR&L) was a common carrier, 3 ft gage line and is serving as my “strategic guide” as the Triple O evolves. OR&L locos, even the old ones, were kept up to date and in fighting trim until the end. Photos clearly show they had compressors. The plantation locos on Oahu are a bit more ambiguous. The can cars seem to have no brakes at all, so my inclination is to go with “not needed.” Still, one saddle tanker looks like she has an air cylinder forward of her saddle on the starboard side. Another larger plantation loco looks like it might have air hoses. Finally, a picture of an Oahu Sugar Co. saddle tanker pulling live ammo during WWII suggests something a bit better than hand brakes! I am guessing that larger plantations MAY have had one or two locos fitted with compressors for special loads and / or occasional runs on the OR&L’s mainline as leased motive power.
Given the above and the comments that preceded:
Keep the generator.
Add a bell above the sand dome or between the steam dome and the stack, whatever fits.
Figure out a way to mount a light forward of the stack.
Punt on the compressor. The resurrected loco will never pull trains longer than 4x HLW minis (A buddy has a neat way to convert these into proper cane cars!). Photographic evidence of plantation locos on Oahu pulling on or two 40’ cars exists, albeit in private service, and that photo showed no compressor.
In reviewing my sources, I thought folks would be interested to know that geared locos, albeit Shays, ran out here. The OR&L had two, but they fell out of favor with the crews and were decommissioned. Two others came to help build a large water transfer project on Oahu, one of which ended up on a private pineapple plantation.
On a practical note, the X-acto knife came out tonight to attack a line of flash along the centerline. Flash is subdued, but gouges are added. It has been a while…I will get some 120 grit sand paper and cleat it all up. Oh, the girls deemed the “eyebrows” cute. They stay.
I also took a hard look at the stack. A thick wad of glue holds it in place. The crack runs around the base, but across about 30 degrees of arc, includes the collar that would presumably hold the real stack in place. Should I try to carefully cut this glue seal and then smooth stack and interior with sandpaper? Or should I try to dissolve it? I remember that glue and LGB plastic are not always friendly mixes, and I am wondering if I should find an alternate means to reaffix the stack. Perhaps a dowel that drops through the firebox into small block of wood with hole in it?
I have to review that thread about painting LGB, but before I put paint to loco, I have to worry through the couplers. The after coupler is gone. No worry there! The forward coupler is part of the lower hull. Part of my wants to cut it off to install a wooden bumper like most of the photos have, then mount a new coupler to that. I have to hide an unsightly seem, anyway. The other part says, “Don’t mess with what works.” I am leaning that direction.
Finally, should I get new wheels? These are plastic. They work. I have to figure out a way to tap out the axel. If there is no operational reason to upgrade the wheels, I’d prefer to save the money. I would imagine after some paint they should look OK.
OK, slow build, but I appreciate your patience and pointers. Should go a long way to making this project not only functional but credible!
Aloha,
Eric
Ok;
IF your railroad is a common carrier, THEN its subject to the railroad safety appliance act (enacted 1893), THEREFORE the railroad equipment has to be outfitted with air brakes and automatic couplers.
If the railroad’s equipment is interchanged with other railroads, then its equipment has to comply with the act.
If the railroad is not a common carrier, and the equipment isn’t interchanged with another railroad, then these laws do not apply. That is why we see extraction railroads (usually logging railroads) running with link and pin couplers, no air brakes and archbar trucks in the 40’s 50’s and later.
Next time you tackle flash, try using the back edge of the #11 blade, you can scrape vs gouging. Give it a try…
David,
Thanks. That really helps explains the variety in the photos I studied, and it informs the direction this project goes. We have two loops. In theory, the outer loop is the common carrier (The OR&L) and the inner loop the industrial (plantation) railroad. In practice, at this stage of the game, no one at home here really cares besides me. As my long term goal is to move towards a specifically Hawaii / OR&L inspired railroad, I am leaning towards the more stripped-down plantation variant, especially as I have the functional M2075, anyway, that could, in time, be the railroad safety appliance act compliant variant. Let me mull it over.
John,
Great tip! There will be other projects!
Eric
Update:
Flash (and gouges) sanded off as well as a few glue blobs. I picked around the glue blob holding the stack in place, but I may try to dissolve it with MEK. I found a hole left where a latch held the boiler to the lower hull used to be; I’ll have to back this with styrene, fill it, and sand it smooth. I’ll get the supplies after I get the stack off and worry over re-mounting it.
In reviewing the hull, I have decided:
The after coupler gave me pause. My original plan was to build a hook-and-loop into wooden end beams, then mount that to the hull. As I thought about, though, I doubt that glue would hold it in place, and I really doubt the efficacy of using my handheld drill to bore through everything to hold in place with bolts. I used some brass strip and small nuts and bolts to fashion a simple loop for my kids’ version of this same loco, but that, while functional, was a bearcat to shape and to mount. I am going to see if the hardware store has a small handle from the cabinetry section might work. Failing that, my thought is to cut a hole in the hull, stick the tongue of LGB coupler into the hole, and secure that with a screw to a chunk of wood epoxied into place. I cannot explore that option, though, until I see how much room those motors will take up!
Needless to say, with all this cutting, patching, and gluing likely, I held off on the paint job.
Sorry this is an incremental thing. “Rooster” warned this would be more than slapping on some detail parts. I had no idea how much more it would be!
Thanks for you patience and ideas!
Eric
We crossed the modeling Rubicon…Little Thomas is in parts, most of which are soaking in water right now to loosen 40+ years of dirt and grime. Oldest Daughter lent to to break him up and clean him up.
To be frank, I came close to pulling the plug on the project beyond repowering the old fellow; I even considered applying the yet-to-be-received motors for something else. Kid-zilla enjoyed him as was, which seemed like a good rationale for modeling cowardice.
There is no turning back now with the old loco in parts…The former Triple O Little Thomas is coming back as the M&K Sugar Co.'s geared workhorse Komaka’iki.
Pictorial proof to follow, hopefully Sunday. I am also still worrying over how to mount the after coupler, and those photos might better illustrate the issue.
Have a great weekend!
Eric
OK, as promised, photographic proof of progress…
Oldest Daughter and I turned-to with MEK, X-acto knives, and fine sand paper to clean Little Thomas. We gave Kid-zilla a piece of sandpaper so he could feel involved:
The MEK had to dissolve multiple repair attempts on that stack, and I was really shocked to see some of the deformations left by trying to use solvent-based cements those many years ago! The net result was that we can now place the stack in a vertical position…
…and the old boy is now in parts (the loco, not me):
Clearly, there is some work with a brush and soapy water ahead of me / us! I will try to stack my hours, too, to get to the hobby shop for that styrene to make the water tank fill lids and putty to patch some of the holes in the “bow” and around the soon-to-be-reattached stack. That leads me to my questions…
First and foremost, what glue should I use? Our forensics over the weekend suggest multiple types had been used and failed over the previous decades.
Secondly, I am considering just abandoning the brass bus bars in place against unforeseen future need. They sit on a plastic post with a head larger than their holes. They would be easy to replace, but harder to reaffix should, for some reason, I need them. Thoughts? Go or stay on these things?
Finally, the after coupler confounds me…When I repaired the kids’ Christmas Thomas, the end result looked like this:
Unattractive but functional. Differences in design between 1976 and 2016, however, mean that I don’t have the interior room to use this solution on the current project. That same lack of interior space precludes boring a hold to mount an LGB hook and loop, and, as the following photo shows, some sort of exterior mount seems…awkward…
I have scoured the stripped chassis of a busted Big Hauler for salvageable parts and answers, but no joy. My perusal of the cabinetry section at the hardware store was equally fruitless. I am thinking an “L” oriented downward like the coupling hook on my LGB mogul may be the best solution, even if it precludes easy coupling / uncoupling.
The dog is giving me stink eye…Time to go!
Have a great week!
Eric
Update:
Motors, gearboxes, and charging cable are in! I’ll get them on Friday along with the glue, styrene to make filling ports and to fill holes, and plastice filler I need elsewhere on the body. I’ll also get some brass paint for visible handwheels and the relief valve, some flat black for the washes, and something else for the boiler bands (just to break up the monotony). Bill suggested a way to make a coupler, and I am going with it. I’ll use piano wire or something close and drill holes in the right spot of the hull. To stabilize the coupler, I will also drill holes into what will become the wooden endbeam. Then I can insert the wire through the timber and hull, make an eyelet to hold it in place, bend it to shape, repeat on the other side, and, hopefully, have a functioning loop coupler.
After that, I can prime the whole thing then dicker with the wiring to get it all moving before giving the old boy a nice coat of charcoal black.
Progress will be a bit spotty as Christmas approaches, but the critical parts are starting to come together!
Pictures to come as parts and pieces start to transform this hulk into a locomotive.
Aloha,
Eric
Update:
All bits are on hand. The little motors and gear boxes will fit into the lower hull (rightmost red thing in the picture two posts up), though I will have to grind out the plastic that held the old gears (“up” in the picture) and those two little posts (“down” in the picture) as well as the tubes into which they mate in the upper part of the hull (the red thing in the center). Also, the motor mount has holes for machine screws, but these are in “ears” that extend outward from the mount. I will have to bend these 180 degrees to get them to fit. I’ll try to get a photo up this week.
Progress will slow as we move closer to Christmas, but progress there will be. I have to source wiring and / or connectors that will attach to the little tabs on the motors before I can even think about wiring anything else together. This means I may as well prime and paint everything as time permits.
Have a great week!
Eric
Update:
We crossed the Rubicon this weekend, and the old shell got holes, cuts, and patches that officially mark “no turning back.”
I had previously cut out some styrene to patch holes that allowed for the original and long lost battery control bits to stick through as well as a missing bit of plastic. Today, after fiddling with a frog that was causing derailments, I cut a test train loose while Youngest Daughter and I forged on with the project. She used a pin vise to drill holes for the new loop coupler, lining it up on the remnants of the old coupler:
In all fairness, Neighbor-Girl-Who-Thinks-She-Lives-Here was busy, so this was a distant second fall back activity. Nonetheless, we forged ahead, and I showed her how to use the back of a hobby knife to fill in the holes and cracks and patches. She started with where the air compressor used to be and graduated to patching up around the stack, to include making sure the pipes showed:
I botched the photos of the finished work, but you get the idea. We’ll get the patches sanded and touched up over the course of the week.
I then took over with the Dremel, ground off the remains of the original loop coupler, and gutted the odd bits and parts in the upper and lower hull that will prevent me from installing the motors. The picture is awful, but it shows the progress:
I have to fold those “ears” inward to make the motors fit. I plan to mark the holes, drill them with my pin vise, and screw the motors in place from the outside bottom. I bought a can of coal-black primer, and I’ll hit the upper and lower hull once I tap those holes for the motors. The onrush of Christmas may delay these next steps a bit!
I did find that my hardware store has taken on much of what our old Radio Shack used to carry, so wires and DPDT switch are on hand. I have to bring my battery to see if they have the right terminals for me to plug it into the charger…something you though the hobby shop would’ve had…This will buy me time to pencil whip my circuit diagram together, something I have not had to do in over 20 years, and a skill that was, at best, nominal at the time. The wheels also don’t fit their new axels, so I am going to have to bring the wheels to the hardware store, too, to find some tubing I can use to fill the holes and snug them over the axels (Thanks, Bill B. for the tip!).
I wanted to show proof of progress, so there you have it! Have a great week, and, for those who celebrate, Merry Christmas!
Eric
First, belated Merry Christmas (or not actually belated if you are a bit more liturgically minded) to all who celebrate!
Secondly, I wanted to show a bit of proof of progress. Oldest Son and I finished prepping the body and test fitting the motors. We also used styrene tubing to make a fill cap, using pictures of Kaua’i saddle tankers and our B’mann 2-4-2 as guides:
Next, we slapped the old boy (the train) together to see it on the rails:
I had to do this just to prove this is going to work, at least in terms of being able to install the motors, getting the shell back together, and proving it’ll fit on the rails! I haven’t had time to track down a few bits and parts to tie the electrical circuitry together, but Little Thomas is at least ready for the paint shop. Say “Aloha 'oe!” to that red plastic! Heck, even just the vertical stack is am improvement!
Enjoy the rest of the 12 Days of Christmas and a Great Start to the New Year!
Eric
Looks great
Whoa…Oldest Son and I just gave Little Thomas his new paint. What a transformation! In thirty seconds, it went from toy to model! Makes me wonder what I was afraid of in approaching a kitbash project… We’ll try to get the after coupler mounted and motors screwed in tomorrow, and then we can think about detail painting.
As an aside, a factor in this weekend push is the visit of our last Nisei on New Years. Both are both approaching 100 and they are the only family members who remember trains as an integral part of Hawaii life are coming over for New Years. I want to have them put at least a bit of paint on this locomotive, so the project can serve as a rolling part of their legacy and of a bygone era.
Pictures to follow as appropriate, and in the meantime, may I wish everyone a Happy New Year!
Eric
Eric Mueller said:
As an aside, a factor in this weekend push is the visit of our last Nisei on New Years. Both are both approaching 100 and they are the only family members who remember trains as an integral part of Hawaii life are coming over for New Years.
Do yourself a favor and ask them as many questions as you can possibly think to ask. Remember not everything is written down in history books. Especially things that they could answer, such as what did the whistle and bell sound like,did they work the RR at night,etc? I wish I would have done that with a few elders I knew but I was to young and dumb(I know Ken I still am) to think otherwise.
" Rooster " said:
I wish I would have done that with a few elders I knew but I was to young and dumb(I know Ken I still am) to think otherwise.
No comment…(https://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-wink.gif)
