I’m thinking about going with one of the wireless systems for an upcoming indoor layout. For those that do it, which system allows the best fine tuning for slow speed operation? I like to do switching and will need to run engines at very low speeds. I am familiar with DCC and what can be done there. That is another option if the wireless systems aren’t good for what I am trying to do.
I think that the Aristo Revolution has wonderful low speed control… Plus, I think the menu function for changing performance…
Just my opinion…
Hard to say which is best since most of us run only one system. I use Del Taparo’s Rail Boss and when set up properly, I can get very fine low seed motor control. Many don’t like the large two-stick transmitters this system uses, but I find them very easy to use.
Phil
I’ll agree with Andy on the Aristo Revolution is very good for what you want to do. It has the advantage that you can use it on track power or battery right out of the box. The problem is that transmitter is out of stock and will be late summer before they will be available again.
I use CVP’s Airwire that is wireless DCC. If your using track power with it , you’ll need to add a bridge and a cap to the input side of the Airwire receiver.
Rodney
In DCC, the Zimo has the best low speed control. And the decoders have a half speed setting at the push of a button on the hand held.
All zimo decoders now are 128 speed steps, and so are many others, but not LGB on board!! Only the 55027 has this capability.
Dan Pierce said:I'll second that!
In DCC, the Zimo has the best low speed control. And the decoders have a half speed setting at the push of a button on the hand held. All zimo decoders now are 128 speed steps, and so are many others, but not LGB on board!! Only the 55027 has this capability.
That slow speed control works in N-scale (1:160) as nicely as it does in IIm scale (1:22.5). And that is only the start of the capabilities!
Thanks for the replies so far. I also came across NCE’s gwire today online. Was not aware of it previously. Does anyone use it? If so, what are your feelings on it? I’m tempted to stay with the DCC side of things more than go to a proprietary system. With that said, the Revo does have my interest though. Still very much undecided.
NCE G wire has nice slow speed control as well. i used one with my Airwire. Still prefer my airwire though, just personal preference.
Terry
You can use the Zimo decoder with any DCC system. You are just limited by what the DCC system can do such as LGB MTS command stations are 14 speed steps only and can not do read backs of CV’s.
I’ll have to second (third?) the Aristo Revolution suggestion. As you did not say you were limited to DCC I’d say give it consideration. Granted it is only the 2nd control system I have used but I do find it’s slow speed control impressive. I too like the ability to work with track or battery power, ease of use, and true ‘plug and play’ capability. Current transmitter availability is a concern.
Careful on the G-wire. It was built purposely to work with QSI’s Sound Cards. Since the Titan has not been released yet, almost 2 years behind schedule, and the Magnum is hard to come by. I would not look at the G-Wire. It does work with Airwire.
I use my G-wire controller to run my airwire equiped locos, but it is limited control. You can control direction and speed and the basic functions. Thats about it. I have heard someone say they could program a 4 digit address into thier airwire receiver using a G-wire controller but I was not able to do it with mine. I usually use my T5000 for running my airwire locos.
I would only suggest the G-wire if you have more use for the NCE system. I did because my HO railroad club uses NCE for their operating system so I can bring the G-wire there and have my own personal controller to use at the club. The controller is not radio when it is used on something other than G-wire, but I dont mind being teathered.
I use NCE/QSI, Airwire, and Revolution, and all three give me very good slow speed control for switching (which I do a lot of). I really don’t think you’re going to go wrong with any of the systems. I will say that despite the purported cross-compatibility between the Airwire and NCE stuff, they’re not 100% compatible when it comes to programming. They do okay running the trains, but if you’re going with the QSI/G-wire receiver, you really need the NCE controller to program it, and likewise for the Airwire stuff. I think the Revo wins in terms of ease of programming, but some of the higher-end functions of the DCC-based systems are pretty cool to play with if you’re after that level of control. But in terms of overall slow-speed control, I’d really be hesitant to put one over the other. Your slow-speed performance will be more impacted by the motor and gearing of the loco than any variation between these systems.
Later,
K
QSI (IS) Back into full production and should arrive in a few weeks. I own 27 of the old units and have ordered 5 new units to start.
QSI is 2nd to none when it comes to sound and control and its a Analog DC/DCC/Battery Decoder. And best of all its the best value out there.
I buy them thru Robby at RLD for the best price.
Nick
Kevin Strong said:
I use NCE/QSI, Airwire, and Revolution, and all three give me very good slow speed control for switching (which I do a lot of). I really don't think you're going to go wrong with any of the systems. I will say that despite the purported cross-compatibility between the Airwire and NCE stuff, they're not 100% compatible when it comes to programming. They do okay [i]running[/i] the trains, but if you're going with the QSI/G-wire receiver, you really need the NCE controller to program it, and likewise for the Airwire stuff. I think the Revo wins in terms of ease of programming, but some of the higher-end functions of the DCC-based systems are pretty cool to play with if you're after that level of control. But in terms of overall slow-speed control, I'd really be hesitant to put one over the other. Your slow-speed performance will be more impacted by the motor and gearing of the loco than any variation between these systems.Later,
K
I use the NCE system as its 10 amps and works simply and is a great value, Airwire system seems to be good for the battery guys. I tried one last year and it worked well.
As far as the Revo is concerned, Ive installed 2 for some club members and I wasnt that impressed with it, 1st for all the money you need to spend on extra boards to get this thing working on track power is crazy, the loosing the link all the time is a big downer. the fact you cant get all the components all the time is another big problem and then theres the Aristocraft bad habit of making and hooking people on a item and then discontinuing it after its been out for a short while like the 75mht unit.
For me Analog is great but for wireless NCE works great for me the little bit that I have used it.
Nick
Nicholas Savatgy said:Nick, what other boards? Not arguing your statement, just wondering what I could be doing wrong? I use the Revo reciever board in conjunction with Aristo's dual switching power supplys...That's it. What other boards are required?
...As far as the Revo is concerned, Ive installed 2 for some club members and I wasnt that impressed with it, 1st for all the money you need to spend on extra boards to get this thing working on track power is crazy...
Kevin Strong said:
............But in terms of overall slow-speed control, I’d really be hesitant to put one over the other. Your slow-speed performance will be more impacted by the motor and gearing of the loco than any variation between these systems.
Later,
K
Excellent slow speed control with substandard motors and questionable gearboxes in any scale - no, I won’t list the makes and names - can be achieved if the decoder has enough fine-tuning CVs to really fine-tune. And that’s where the good gets separated from the excellent.
AFAIK (based on a few DCC fora) no-one has matched the ZIMO decoders in this respect - but they are all working on it.
One thing to consider in terms of “slow speed” operation: in our scale, we need a certain degree of speed to get the couplers to connect. That varies depending on the particular flavor of coupler you’re using, but if you just gently creep up to a car at a snail’s pace to couple to it, you’re going to push it along with you instead of “dropping the pin” to make the connection. So while it’s really cool to say “I can set my loco running so slow it moves 5 inches in 5 hours,” from a practical, operational standpoint that gets you nothing but bragging rights. You’re not going to reverse direction and take that car with you because it’s not gonna be coupled to your loco. (That’s one reason I haven’t put ball bearing journals in my cars–I rely on a certain degree of resistance to keep the cars from moving when the couplers touch. The more resistance, the slower the approach speed can be to still “drop the pin.”
When I’m switching, I’m accelerating and decelerating to and from about a scale 7 miles per hour. I use the momentum feature to give me smooth starts and stops, adjusting the throttle prior to coupling to the car so the loco just walks up to it and couples just before stopping. The Revo and NCE/G-wire/QSI gives you easy access to change your momentum settings. On the Airwire throttle, you’ve got to program that in via the CVs. (This may have changed with their new throttle, but I’ve not had the pleasure of playing with it yet.) To how I operate, a good, easily controllable momentum is more advantageous than making sure my trains can creep at glacial speeds.
Later,
K
Mark V said:
Nicholas Savatgy said:
…As far as the Revo is concerned, Ive installed 2 for some club members and I wasnt that impressed with it, 1st for all the money you need to spend on extra boards to get this thing working on track power is crazy…Nick, what other boards? Not arguing your statement, just wondering what I could be doing wrong? I use the Revo reciever board in conjunction with Aristo’s dual switching power supplys…That’s it. What other boards are required?
Mark, If memory servs me correctly we had to buy a smoke board, caps board, PWC to Linar board, a wiring harness for the sound unit And there was two other things I believe when we installed 1 revo in a USAT’s Loco. all track powered by the way. Not always as cut and dry as some would have you believe. But it did work for a couple of hours till the Revo shorted out. Aristo did replace it free and as far as I know there hasnt been a issue since. On a Positive note I sold him 2 of my QSI units for his Dash-9s and he bought a NCE System and has been playing with that as well. He has them bolth working on the same track as well… Nick
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Yes Kevin, all of it true, however the title of the thread is “Best low speed control”. That’s where ZIMO excels! You wanna go like a bat out of Halifax, you can do that, too. Voltage of the command station adjustable from 10 to 24V, perfect for those huge NA-themed layouts where it has to be “top-speed”.
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Nicholas Savatgy said:
Mark V said:
Nicholas Savatgy said:
…As far as the Revo is concerned, Ive installed 2 for some club members and I wasnt that impressed with it, 1st for all the money you need to spend on extra boards to get this thing working on track power is crazy…Nick, what other boards? Not arguing your statement, just wondering what I could be doing wrong? I use the Revo reciever board in conjunction with Aristo’s dual switching power supplys…That’s it. What other boards are required?
Mark, If memory servs me correctly we had to buy a smoke board, caps board, PWC to Linar board, a wiring harness for the sound unit And there was two other things I believe when we installed 1 revo in a USAT’s Loco. all track powered by the way. Not always as cut and dry as some would have you believe. But it did work for a couple of hours till the Revo shorted out. Aristo did replace it free and as far as I know there hasnt been a issue since. On a Positive note I sold him 2 of my QSI units for his Dash-9s and he bought a NCE System and has been playing with that as well. He has them bolth working on the same track as well… Nick
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Ah yes, smoke board is required if you want remote operation. I have not installed the cap boards but all the engines I have done to date have excellent electrical pick-up. I have a couple of engines that are “flakey”, they would likely need one. I don’t “do” sound, I was not aware of that.