Large Scale Central

Behavior on forums, and how it affects others

General Discussion
#1

After seeing the response to the Porter thread, and being somewhat exasperated with these forums lately, I really felt I needed to post something here that hopefully actually means something. Apologies if this turns into a massive wall of text – there’s a lot that I’ve seen lately that I feel needs to be pointed out.

I’m a participant on and off in many forums – my interests (guitar, railroads, model railroads, computers, aircraft) lend themselves well to forums and as a young person (24) who shares very few interests with most young adults my age, I have no real life social outlet. I turn to forums for technical talk, banter, and to learn what I can from those more knowledgeable.

Lately I’ve really struggled finding motivation to post here due to severe negativity, lack of respect, lack of politeness, and out and out war. This isn’t somewhere I really want to be right now – but at the same time, railroads are my passion and my main interest in life, and LSC is the forum home of most of the more knowledgeable people on the subject – and I’d like it to feel how it did when I joined here a few years ago, like a club or group, a usually happy family that shares knowledge amongst one another.

In the Porter thread specifically, I noticed that several members, though extremely knowledgeable in their subject areas, really tore into a fairly new member. Personally, this is unacceptable behavior. Even though these people are people whose posts I eagerly read, ready to glean whatever knowledge I could, this really isn’t okay to me. If I join a railroad club, I don’t expect to be able to go and tell everybody else how they’re doing things incorrectly. So what if this guy has an old Bachmann porter that he paid $30 for and enjoys? It’s his perogative. Yes, had I been online at the time, I would have stated that they have problems and to be aware that it could die – but tearing into somebody over their decision, that they are aware of potential problems with, is -never- okay.

If you have an open house for your layout, and somebody comes up to you to ask a question about a locomotive you personally wouldn’t own, would you treat them like this? If they tell you that, yes, they realize that you don’t like it but they do and are okay with dealing with the future problems, would you continue to hound them incessantly about their supposed “incorrectness” until they leave? That’s no way to treat somebody in real life and that’s no way to treat anyone here. Many vintage cars exist that have limited or no parts supply but a devoted following nonetheless (think British cars with Lucas electrics). Yes, they are known to have many deficiencies and problems that -will- occur. Does that stop anyone from owning them? Would you go up to a British car owner at a car show and berate them for owning something that WILL break, and tell them how they should have bought a Toyota?

This has been hard on me – I’m young, and I’ve really gravitated towards those who I feel are experts in certain subject areas. But knowing more than anyone else on a topic does not give you the right to treat them without respect and courtesy. This is Bob’s forum – think of it as hanging around Bob’s house for an operating session. We need to behave as such because I for one appreciate everything Bob has done for this community and really don’t want it to end.

#2

Robbie, I think that you need to re-read the entire thread, starting from the beginning. I suspect, given what you posted, above, that you have only read a portion of it. Our Benevolent Dictator wants us to be self policing, so when someone (Scott) goes off the reservation and attacks another member (TOC), after that second member offered an opinion and some help, and Scott chose to continue the battle, even after he said goodbye, several times, it became obvious that self policing was not something that Scott was capable of, or wanted to engage in, and other, more experienced heads had to step in.

Bob is the sole moderator for this site. That is the way he wants it, this is his site, so be it. When he is away, and not attentive, we do the best we can, when things go awry.

Or do I mis-understand your post, and you just want continued attacks and insults of members to go unanswered, so that we can all get along?

#3

Steve,

I didn’t name names in my post and I’m not naming names now.

Self policing shouldn’t mean that we jump down each other’s throat when somebody says something we don’t like – violence begets violence. According to Google, self-policing means “the process of keeping order or maintaining control within a community without accountability or reference to an external authority.” To me, that means the community should try to maintain order by calm – loud voices usually cause louder voices. If that means we ignore people who we think are insulting us – then so be it. In the real world I definitely have held my tongue many times to avoid conflict and the internet is no different. If that means we all hold our tongues sometimes to maintain order – please, for everybody’s sake, do so.

To me a variety of people misbehaved. I’m not saying more about that topic – it’s locked, it’s said and done. Let’s focus on the next topic and not let it become that one.

#4

Having come late to the party I am ignorant of old histories, I am loath to expose myself that way as it usually opens the door for a ‘talking down to’ by … people whose knowledge I need, but often whose personality I could well do with out.

Welcome to the Internet.

Forums are entertainment with a touch of help. I have to remember to ‘Let it go’, I delete 90% of my responses either because of freed worms or known triggers…

OK, I can’t go on.

John

#5

I went back and I reread the whole thread and I am astonished at how it went from interesting conversation to personal animosity.

#6

Self policing to me should be police oneself first. I am new to forum families. My definition of that is where we do as much socializing as just transfer of information. As such I have had to learn by “trail by fire” when to respond and what to say. When someone strikes a cord with me its better just to ignore them and move on. When Something I say gets someones goat even though I didn’t mean it I apologize publicly and privately even if i don’t think I need to. Nothing here is worth fighting over.

I have received some great advice and some colored opinions disguised as advice. Its all the same most everyone is trying to help and as long as I don’t take the bait and engage I usually can move on. I don’t get involved in trying to tell someone else how to behave I govern me and only me.

This is a great site but some people are incapable of playing nice, its not in their DNA. So if you run into one of them (including me) then take the good, ignore the bad, and move on. If a thread goes awry just ignore the whole thing and move on.

#7

Robbie, it has been said on other threads, by me and others, that personal attacks are not justified. While I could argue both sides of the thread in question, that isn’t going to help. What would help, is if we all, including myself, would read what we wrote as if we were the person it was intended for and say, “how would I feel if someone said that, that way, to me?” If we wouldn’t like to be spoken to that way, we should not speak that way to others.

John, I too have written a lot more then I post. Because I read over what I wrote (see above) and I feel that what I wrote could be taken as offensive, insulting, belittling or just wrong, so I delete what I wrote and come back later to respond.

I am just kind of amazed, that in a group of adults, we have spent so much time time writing and debating this subject, in one iteration or another. Is it too hard to treat people with the respect that we want to be treated with?

#8

Well said, David. I believe Greg was saying similarly, in the “Porter thread.” In another forum, I’ve often been glad that I re-read what someone wrote, before firing off. And I’ve also done a lot of post editing, after reading what I just wrote.

To paraphrase the old carpenter’s rule: “Read Twice, Type Once.”

#9

Gentlemen, I hope I can use that phrase without fear of retribution…

It seems to me that not long ago this very same sort of activity drove another forum member to not only leave, but to search out and delete every post he ever made. Some current site statistics and controls are here due to that. Is our memory that short? Or are we that foolish to think that this short a period of time will make all that bad taste go away.

I am not going to ‘double post’ by reiterating what others have already made clear more than to say that Robbie Hanson hit the nail squarely on the head with his assessment of the thread. As it started to break down I quit reading for the best way for me to not make a fool of myself is to ‘walk away’. There are a couple folks on this forum whose knowledge and advise is well respected and I pay attention when the post. However they can have a personality like 40 grit sand paper. When reading their posts I just try to read it ‘monotone’ to remove as much as I can of what I don’t want to hear. And if it gets real bad, I forgo reading the remainder. I will get the information another way.

I think Devon is quite astute in his observation that ‘self policing’ begins with SELF. If we would all take a chill pill before we retort on another’s post it would eliminate much of this horse pucky. And if the ones who like to bait would be ignored all together … what a serene place this would be.

David, who are you calling ‘adults’? I have to go old, I DO NOT have to grow up. :slight_smile:

My tuppence worth, let the flames begin.

Bob C.

#10

When replying, before I post I always think of the kittens

(better not tell Dave what I paid for my Porter)

(http://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-wink.gif)(http://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-wink.gif)(http://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-wink.gif)

#11

Makes one wonder, aloud sometimes, even…what was the purpose of even starting the thread if all you wanted to do was bash away?

The more I think about it, the more I think we killed his search for “provenance” towards selling on a highly collectible, extremely rare and desirable Bachmann Plastic rod, skate equipped Porter.

One of the few scenarios that can fit the exhibited behavior.

TOC

#12

I think someone needs to come down from their Throne. If I was to purchase a item and was happy with it, why should other people tell me I was wrong. Come on it was only 30 bucks. You cant even buy a decent lunch for two with that. Jeez.

#13

He had no idea. Obviously, clearly, you didn’t read it all.

For one of those, with zero parts available (like the infamous cluster gear), plastic rods, push pins to hold them to the wheels…I didn’t have the heart to tell him what I’ve paid for those, which is zero. That gear goes, you have scenery.

The axles of several of those early 0-4-0’s are now on display on the Dunkley Northern…because I gave them to him.

Rather than listen, he tried to tell me I needed to get out of the hobby…and defend his purchase…which I kept telling him I was glad he was happy with it.

Come down off a throne? How about a High Horse? When someone comes into the living room spouting like that (and notice I didn’t even get involved until what, page four?) something is wrong from the get-go.

Go ahead and berate. Then find where anything I told him was wrong.

I await your report.

TOC

#14

He was happy with his purchase, why do you have to say he was wrong. So it will fall apart or there are no replacement parts, BIG DEAL! He’s getting some enjoyment out of it and who cares if it will soon be a static display somewhere on his layout. He does not. Let it go TOC.

I value the knowledge from a great many of the individuals on this forum that have been in this hobby for many years but when people start acting like God and imposing their opinions on others I tend to loose respect.

#15

Randy, I suggest that you read the whole thread, before you say something inflammatory like that. No such thing happened. Take a chill pill, please.

#16

I have read the whole thread twice,

#17

Yes, please go back and read the ENTIRE thread.

  1. Someone asks about their beloved loco and ASKS for opinions.

  2. A VERY experienced person who never brings up the subject of his personal wealth states that it was worth more like $20, not thirty.

  3. First person comes back with a TIRADE, tons of words, and tells the experienced person that if he cannot afford $30 he should quit the hobby. Then proceeds to throw more personal dirt. Then we are definitely “off to the races”.

READ THE THREAD… If I am in error with my facts and the sequence, please correct me.

If not, maybe assimilating just the above will re-calibrate the interpretation of events.

My personal theory/suggestion, nuke ANY post with any personal comments… my theory is a follows, when people are just out to argue, or “don’t have a leg to stand on”, they quickly resort to personal comments… if you take these away, my theory is that the thread will either revert to facts, or the name caller will shut up.

This theory has worked perfectly for me on several forums, and once “zero tolerance” is enforced, everyone “gets it” real soon.

Regards, Greg

#18

Randy McDonald said:

He was happy with his purchase, why do you have to say he was wrong. So it will fall apart or there are no replacement parts, BIG DEAL! He’s getting some enjoyment out of it and who cares if it will soon be a static display somewhere on his layout. He does not. Let it go TOC.

I value the knowledge from a great many of the individuals on this forum that have been in this hobby for many years but when people start acting like God and imposing their opinions on others I tend to loose respect.

Let it go? Me? I could care less. Remember, I didn’t start this thread discussing a LOCKED thread to continue bashing the hated TOC.

Do.

Not.

Tell.

Me.

To let it go when I have no desire to hold onto it. Others seem to have the desire to not let it go, but it ain’t me.

TOC

#19

And that’s the thing with the written word. Many will read it and many will interpret it differently. The problem is when we can’t get off out high horse and admit one way or the other that we were misunderstood, or god forbid you were wrong. Then, as always, we end up with this mess. if I was Bob i’d shut the site down and find more peaceful things to do with my time, like model railroading.

Terry

#20

I apologize for starting this. Obviously the internet is not the right place to discuss such controversial things as model trains. Bob, do whatever you want, ban me, whatever, for starting this; I should have known better.