Shelley,
I’m guessing this was the first charging cycle on these batteries? If so, you’ll need to run through at least three - four cycles (charge/discharge) before a lithium battery-pack is at full capacity.
Rick Isard
Cordless Renovations, LLC
Rick Isard said:
Shelley,I’m guessing this was the first charging cycle on these batteries? If so, you’ll need to run through at least three - four cycles (charge/discharge) before a lithium battery-pack is at full capacity.
Rick Isard
Cordless Renovations, LLC
Thanks so much for this info.
Not the very first charge, but I’m still under 5.
Plan to run them a lot this weekend; will see how the run times and charging go.
Again, thanks.
shelley sherbondy said:Ordinarily when running USAT diesels with the Revolution Train Engineer the incandescent light bulbs do not operate properly unless they are run at Lionel like speeds. The voltage regulators used in most USAT diesels to provide power to the incandescent bulbs are incompatible with the PWC output of Revolution receivers. If the lights on yours are lit at slow speeds, your installer may have by by-passed the voltage regulators and wired the lights directly to the receiver. Or the diesels are already equipped with LED lights, like the S-4, and do not have voltage regulators.
The control is a Crest Train Engineer Revolution with Px sound system, in both the GP and the PA/PB. Are the lights hard to replace with LED's?
If you can turn the headlights on and off by using the HD LIGHT menu selection in the ASSIGNED FUNCTIONS menu on the transmitter/throttle, they are connected directly to the receiver. Note: You must return to the operating screen for this function to work.
If on the other hand they cannot be turned on and off with the throttle and only get bright as the motor speed increases, they are probably still connected to the USAT main circuit board and fed by the voltage regulators. The main circuit board is probably powered by the motor leads of the receiver.
Try this test on both diesels and let us know the results.
There is a really easy way to have constant brightness lighting for USA Trains locos WITHOUT rewiring the lights or replacing bulbs with LED’s.
http://www.rcs-rc.com/content/9044/relay-1a/
Scroll down for a pdf on how to wire it in. It can be used with any open collector lighting ouput such as the REVOLUTION uses.
The # RELAY will not reduce battery voltage consumption, but that issue can be addressed separately.
TonyWalsham said:Mum's house.....:) ;)David Russell said:Where does it run to?
Soldered track with power to it will run all day long..... ;)
When I changed two of my engines over to battery I put in a switch so I can go from battery to track power. Im glad I did this because I still find myself using track power more then battery. I love battery especially when plowing snow or running in the snow. It also works nice when visiting other layouts or running two trains on my line. What I like most about track power is I can put the train on the tracks and let it run all day. Cant do that with battery unless you keep charging batteries.
Shawn said:That's actually the biggest problem I had with track power. 2 or 3 hours into a 6 hour open day, locos would start stalling and jerking around due to dirty wheels and track. Very embarassing. Battery power now runs 4 hours easily with nary a jerk ever. Two locos (or two batteries) and I'm good for the day.
... What I like most about track power is I can put the train on the tracks and let it run all day. Cant do that with battery unless you keep charging batteries.
Del Tapparo said:True but it takes the same amount time for me to clean my track real quick then to change a battery and put the old one on a charger. And I can clean the track as the train runs. They all no doubt have their advantages and disadvantages but thats why I went with both options. I can start with track power. When it starts to jerk I switch to battery.Shawn said:That's actually the biggest problem I had with track power. 2 or 3 hours into a 6 hour open day, locos would start stalling and jerking around due to dirty wheels and track. Very embarassing. Battery power now runs 4 hours easily with nary a jerk ever. Two locos (or two batteries) and I'm good for the day.
... What I like most about track power is I can put the train on the tracks and let it run all day. Cant do that with battery unless you keep charging batteries.
I’m with you Shawn…I’ve got a few feet of track on the dirt now, powered by a 2 amp supply and am quite happy with the set up. When I get more track,experience, and MONEY then I could switch over to RC/Battery. But right now it works for me and I can have a running train. I am in no position to tear into one of My locos to install Battery/RC…yes when I gain more experience in this hobby YES. (Also can not afford someone to do it for me)
My 2 pennies worth.
Shawn said:Shawn How difficult is it to put a switch in to allow battery AND track power? I believe they both have their merits, and drawbacks for that matter; so I think having them both available is the best/ideal solution. Is it possible with my set up --> TE Revo, Px sound, Li Ion batteries in PA/PB and GP locos.
When I changed two of my engines over to battery I put in a switch so I can go from battery to track power. Im glad I did this because I still find myself using track power more then battery. I love battery especially when plowing snow or running in the snow. It also works nice when visiting other layouts or running two trains on my line. What I like most about track power is I can put the train on the tracks and let it run all day. Cant do that with battery unless you keep charging batteries.
How difficult is it to put a switch in to allow battery AND track power? I believe they both have their merits, and drawbacks for that matter; so I think having them both available is the best/ideal solution. Is it possible with my set up --> TE Revo, Px sound, Li Ion batteries in PA/PB and GP locos.
Shelley Sherbondy
Yes, I did for friend with a USA Trains F3-A. There was an article on our club web site about it, but I removed after a another friend fried the electronics in his SD-45. He ran it with a trailing battery car on a track powered railway and forgot to thrown the track/battery power switch to the battery power setting.
Your installer should be able to install a double-pole, double throw switch to accomplish this providing he just unplugged the track power wiring instead of cutting and removing it.
Shelley I have a very basic battery set up. I took the wires from the motor and soldered them to the middle of a DPDT switch. Then I took the wires that come from the pickups on the wheels and soldered them to one side of the DPDT switch. The other side of the DPDT switch I soldered a wire that goes to the back of the engine and hooks to the battery car. For dontrol I added a basic crider control from Del. I used a Li ion battery that was able to fit under a scratchbuilt flatcar. For me it works great and did not cost me much. I dont have any sound mainly because I cant see spending $200+ on sound. Plus I think the noise after a while would drive me nuts. I would rather listen to the birds.
Paul Norton said:shelley sherbondy said:Ordinarily when running USAT diesels with the Revolution Train Engineer the incandescent light bulbs do not operate properly unless they are run at Lionel like speeds. The voltage regulators used in most USAT diesels to provide power to the incandescent bulbs are incompatible with the PWC output of Revolution receivers. If the lights on yours are lit at slow speeds, your installer may have by by-passed the voltage regulators and wired the lights directly to the receiver. Or the diesels are already equipped with LED lights, like the S-4, and do not have voltage regulators.
The control is a Crest Train Engineer Revolution with Px sound system, in both the GP and the PA/PB. Are the lights hard to replace with LED's?If you can turn the headlights on and off by using the HD LIGHT menu selection in the ASSIGNED FUNCTIONS menu on the transmitter/throttle, they are connected directly to the receiver. Note: You must return to the operating screen for this function to work.
If on the other hand they cannot be turned on and off with the throttle and only get bright as the motor speed increases, they are probably still connected to the USAT main circuit board and fed by the voltage regulators. The main circuit board is probably powered by the motor leads of the receiver.
Try this test on both diesels and let us know the results.
Being new to this hobby, I was wondering what you mean by “Lionel like speed” I would assume this means FAST. But then that begs the question, isn’t “fast” relative. I usually run my trains at 50% on the TE .
I will try the light test over the weekend and post my findings.
If you only run your trains at 50% speed then you don’t need such high voltage battery packs.
Fewer cells means you can fit larger capacity battery packs at a lower voltage. This would extend the run time accordingly.
Actually, with a linear output system, I believe you are correct Tony, i.e. If you want to present the motor with 12 volts and you have a 24 volt pack, then an analog system with a transistor driving the output would have to “drop” the voltage 12 volts, wasted as heat.
But with PWM (pulse width modulation), all pulses are always full voltage (virtually no loss through the output transistors), and going slower just means shorter pulses.
Therefore, the voltage alone of the battery pack is not indicative of the run time, it is the WATTAGE that is used. (volts and amps together)
So pulling the same wattage from a 12v 5 amp hour battery pack should equal using a 24v 2.5 amp hour battery pack.
Since battery capacity is pretty much linear by volume, the 2 different battery packs above would be virtually the same volume.
Since the Revolution is specified, and it is PWM, the lower voltage packs in the same space won’t give any more run time than a higher voltage pack of lesser amp hours that uses the same space.
Regards, Greg
Greg,
You are of course correct with regards to the motor(s).
However, the batteries are used for other things, such as sound systems and lighting etc, as well as the motors. These usually run at much lower voltages requiring their supply voltages be dropped via regulators. This extra voltage is wasted in the form of heat.
shelley sherbondy said:Sometimes the sliders catch on things like switch frogs, joiners, etc.
John, Spoke with the installer. the wires to the truck wheels and sliders were/are disconnected. IMHO, as a newbie, I don't see the harm with the sliders still being attached. I can't imagine they create much, if any, resistance. And who knows, I just may want to have track power as an option in the future, depending on how much ($$) of a PITA it is. :)
Got it Tony… although I would suggest that that problem would be best solved by using switching regulators instead of old school linear regulators.
The motors should be the largest current draw, but I’ve been recently informed that some of the older designs use a lot of power themselves, not counting the output to the motor.
(I thought the discussion was on a motor controller only)
I see your point Tony. All the systems I use have switching regulators, no wasted heat or power. Since most DCC controllers grew from HO, where there was very little room to waste, and now with smaller scales, definitely no room for heat sinks. So if you look at only the motor wattage, my example holds true.
But as you wisely point out, many controllers have linear regulators, and the waste of power would definitely equate to a less efficient situation using a voltage “higher than necessary”.
Regards, Greg
Thanks Greg.
There are two other minor arguments against too much battery voltage.
-
The trains will travel much faster at top speed. Not a problem usually until children get involved running them. With the more sophisticated systems that max speed can of course be set lower.
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Whilst the speed control devices may keep cool when operating the motor(s) the motors can and do get quite hot. That is why AristoCraft and others leave air vents in the motor blocks.
If you continually run a motor at half speed on a PWM output it will get much hotter than it will when running on PWM at full speed, when the PWM signal is virtually a straight line.
I always advise customers to run a loco on track power to judge the max speed they want to run at. Then measure the track voltage and add a volt or so to arrive at the ideal battery voltage.
All good points, and I am hereby further educated. Thanks tony!
Greg