Large Scale Central

Battery Advice for Bachmann Big Hauler?

General Discussion
#1

Okay, new to the forum and large scale. I’m persuaded that battery/RC is the way to go for my envisioned outdoor layout, being too lazy to clean track and enamored of remote control.

I picked up a Bachmann 4-6-0 Big Hauler (series 4 I think) on the 'bay. Maybe not my best move, but here it is.

Opened it up and there’s plenty of room for batteries and stuff.

What Batteries Are Best? and where should I get them (I live near San Francisco in California.)

A pal is urging LiFePo, various forums are pushing other things.

What say ye, railroaders? Suggestions? Advice?

#2

Welcome to the forums, I,ll let the more knowledgable answer the question, but it might help what the ultimate plan, and which RC system?

#3

Okay, fair question. And thanks, John, for the welcome!

The ultimate plan is to occupy a small garden, circling a palm tree in a 15 foot diameter loop and running back and forth a bit to another loop around 45 feet away through a patch of garden fringing the lawn. According to local legend, the palm tree was planted in some connection with the old Northwestern Pacific Line which had a terminal here in Tiburon, so it only seemed fair to bring a train to the tree.

The RC is intended to be a homebrew (scratch built), drawing somewhat on other work I have been researching on robotics. A Pololu speed controller controlled via an Xbee wireless link is the plan. The speed controller can handle up to 5 amps at 30 V. The one I picked is controlled by serial, which is where the XBee comes in. Two of its pins serve as a serial link, a dozen or so others are available as inputs or outputs. (Bell, whistle, chuff, engineer waving, whatever). Of course, I get to write the interface

Longer answer than needed? Probably will haul a short string of cars to delight self and visiting children. I’d be surprised if more than a few hours runtime ever became critical…

Thanks again!

#4

Well, for the Bug Mauler, you shouldn’t need much more than 14 or so volts, and 2800 - 3400 mAh. Any more than that any you will tend to run at Warp 8, and stay out 'way past dark.

As to NiCad, Nimh or one of the lithium batteries, that is personal choice. The nickel chemistries are well proven, heavy and big. The lithium are still having growing pains, though not so much as a few years ago. They are smaller and lighter than the nickel chemistry batteries, so you can cram them into smaller spaces than the other ones.

Most of us get them on line, as local retailers seem to be too proud of their products. Some good spots are http://www.all-battery.com/ and http://www.cordlessrenovations.com/. A good guy to talk to to iron out problems is Dave Goodson at Northwest Remote Control

#5

Ahhh. Thanks. I was on the point of placing an order and then noticed the vendor was in Singapore, and figured I had gotten a bit far afield. Yeah, tried and true, that’s me. Except for electronics. I’ll report back on that one.

#6

I use a Li-ion 14.8V 5200maH battery in my 2nd generation Big Hauler and get 10-12 hours of runtime with it, using an Aristo first generation Train Engineer for control. Works fine.

I’m interested in your Pololu setup–I just used one of their USB servo control boards in a school project to turn a projector on and off.

#7

This is the motor controller: http://www.pololu.com/catalog/product/1373

What particularly interests me is that it includes built-in acceleration and deceleration rates. We’ll wire it up in a day or two…

#8

Hi Mike and WELCOME aboard,
I think most of us in large scale started with a big hauler and that is OK. There are a few things you need to get the
loco reliable. George has a some info here for the big hauler.
http://www.girr.org/girr/index.html
Batteries have came a long way since I started in large scale and I started with sealed lead acid. Now I changing over to
li-ion and get all my batteries from a sponsor here on LSC, Cordless Renovations
http://cordlessrenovations.com/?page_id=2.
Rick is a great guy and will help you for whatever you batteries needs are.

Rodney

#9

I use all battery.com for my li-ions. I love the li-ions because they are small, light and work great. I was able to fit a 14.8v Li-ion under a flatcar. Dont be afraid of track cleaning. A pole sander with a scrotch brite pad takes only a few minutes to clean. You still have to clean track for battery - sticks ect…
Welcome to the forum and keep us posted on your progress.

#10

I’ll second the vote for LiIon chemistry.

I was very skeptical at first and resisted them. After buying a digital camera that uses device specific LiIons I was so impressed with the shelf-life of a charged battery that it changed my mind. Many folks say they are resisting the move to battery because they don’t want to wait for batteries to charge when they decide to run a train after weeks of sitting idle. LiIon batteries hold their charge for many weeks eliminating this argument.

Just be sure to buy a proper charger and follow all safety advice when charging and using LiIons.

#11
Jon Radder said:
I'll second the vote for LiIon chemistry.

I was very skeptical at first and resisted them. After buying a digital camera that uses device specific LiIons I was so impressed with the shelf-life of a charged battery that it changed my mind. Many folks say they are resisting the move to battery because they don’t want to wait for batteries to charge when they decide to run a train after weeks of sitting idle. LiIon batteries hold their charge for many weeks eliminating this argument.

Just be sure to buy a proper charger and follow all safety advice when charging and using LiIons.


Thats why I like having nthe option of going from battery to track power. If a battery dies or needs to be charged all have to do is flip the switch to track power and im off again.

#12

I bought a Makita cordless set 4 years ago, 18 volt driver/drill and an impact driver with 2 1.5 Ah batteries. Use them most everyday in my Business and still preforming like new. I could never get that from NiCads.

#13
Shawn said:
Jon Radder said:
I'll second the vote for LiIon chemistry.

I was very skeptical at first and resisted them. After buying a digital camera that uses device specific LiIons I was so impressed with the shelf-life of a charged battery that it changed my mind. Many folks say they are resisting the move to battery because they don’t want to wait for batteries to charge when they decide to run a train after weeks of sitting idle. LiIon batteries hold their charge for many weeks eliminating this argument.

Just be sure to buy a proper charger and follow all safety advice when charging and using LiIons.


Thats why I like having nthe option of going from battery to track power. If a battery dies or needs to be charged all have to do is flip the switch to track power and im off again.

In theory, I’m set up the same way on all of my locos that do battery power. In practice I haven’t put power on my outdoor rails in nearly two years. I’ve tried indoors, but without having kept the brass track clean, it’s spotty at best.

#14

I’m not sure that I could even find my power supply…

#15

I agree with what Jon said about the shelf life. Thats why I chose Li-Ion. They keep their charge, where as in nickel chemistry batteries loose their charge as they sit on the shelf.

Some will say that the Li-ion batteries have a issue of possibly exploding. It is possible, I wont deny that. However, I think the technology is much better and the likelyhood of it happening is a lot less.

As for the batteries, I use 14.8V 4800 mah. In my Bachmann K-27 I get about 2-3 hours of run time and that is pulling 4 % grades. Keep in mind some will tell you they get 4-5 hours on a certain voltage rated battery, but you have to take into account the grades the loco is pulling. Steeper grades will sap more energy out of the battery.

#16

I’ll chime in with Lithium Ion batteries from All-Battery.com. 14.8V, 4000mah is what I run in my 4-6-0’s.

#17
Jake Smith said:
I agree with what Jon said about the shelf life. Thats why I chose Li-Ion. They keep their charge, where as in nickel chemistry batteries loose their charge as they sit on the shelf.
Not all Nickle chemistry batteries self discharge. The Hybrid (NiMh/Alkaline) Sanyo ENELOOP cells come charged and are guaranteed to hold 85% charge for 12 months.
Jake Smith said:
Some will say that the Li-ion batteries have a issue of possibly exploding. It is possible, I wont deny that. However, I think the technology is much better and the likelyhood of it happening is a lot less.
It is true that some Li-Ion batteries have exploded in the past. I would be more worried about Li-Po batteries. It is written on the Li-Po packs I have here for testing that [b]They must be charged on a concrete surface with no flammable objects within 10' (3 x metres).[/b] That obviously means out of the models. An inconvenience I am sure very few Large Scale modelers will put up with, other than maybe trail car fans.
#18

That is a misconception, lithium-ion batteries do not explode. If they are charged with a nickel charger instead of a lithium charger, or overcharged because the LiPo’s [not ion’s] don’t usually have a PCB wired in, they will get warm and my cause a fire. But not explode!

Rick Isard
Cordless Renovations, LLC
RCS America

#19

So Wifi? There is a debate here I think about that won’t work somewhere , please tell us more if you care to share.

#20

WiFi would be doable.
However, at present the only user hardware, as in what you actually hold in our hand, would have to be touch screen devices such as I Phone and I Pad.
From surveys Greg E and I have conducted separately, to a man, the interviewees rejected the idea of touch screens as not being user friendly.
You have to look at the screen to operate a control.
They are hard to see in bright daylight.
They eat batteries as they have to be left on all the time.
WiFi uses a lot of power.
Indoors maybe. Outdoors I doubt it.
Perhaps a discussion on WiFi would be better served in another thread, rather than hi-jacking this thread.