Large Scale Central

Bachmann trolley, what standard and what decoders?

General Discussion
#1

I’m starting this new thread because I have some very specific questions about the new Bachmann trolley.

I hope a Bachmann representative will chime in here to give some information.

It has been stated that the trolley comes with both a 8 pin and 21 pin connector.

The question is this: does the 21 pin interface meet the NMRA standard, which is also known as “MTC”, which is also equivalent to the NEM standard 660.

I have heard some very disturbing information about Bachmann making this connector but it does not meet the standard in other products.

I would like at least the statement that it meets these standards, or alternatively, the pinout of the connector specifically in the new trolley.

I’m not buying this thing if it blows up standard decoders.

Greg

#2

Oh, Greg, stop being such a Grumpy Gus.

Buy it, gut it, re-wire it, and be happy. Its cute!

:wink:

#3

Well, that’s the problem, so far the information I have is that there was no room for a “standard” socket, and no one has a picture of where the available space is.

The real question is the wiring.

I was hoping to get some answers BEFORE I bought one. I’ve heard some strange stuff about another Bachmann product with a 21 pin socket.

It’s down to what good is a socket if you cannot “plug and play”

Trolleys are particularly nasty, the PCC car from Aristo was not at all fun to work on.

It is cute though!

Greg

#4

I’m asking a very specific question as outlined in the original post.

It is specifically about the built in interface.

It is a question about the electronics only and specifically.

So, I really need someone from Bachmann to read and comment…

Greg Elmassian said:

I’m starting this new thread because I have some very specific questions about the new Bachmann trolley.

I hope a Bachmann representative will chime in here to give some information.

It has been stated that the trolley comes with both a 8 pin and 21 pin connector.

The question is this: does the 21 pin interface meet the NMRA standard, which is also known as “MTC”, which is also equivalent to the NEM standard 660.

I have heard some very disturbing information about Bachmann making this connector but it does not meet the standard in other products.

I would like at least the statement that it meets these standards, or alternatively, the pinout of the connector specifically in the new trolley.

I’m not buying this thing if it blows up standard decoders.

Greg

#5

Greg an answer was given on the Bachmann site to your question
Mike

#6

http://www.bachmanntrains.com/home-usa/board/index.php/topic,24132.0.html

#7

That’s great… thanks (although weird that they could not post here, they can read but not post?)

Well, that allows me to go forward in decoder selection.

Thanks guys!

Greg

#8

Greg’s answer from the B’Mann …

A question has been raised on another online forum concerning the 21 pin interface in the new Peter Witt Streetcar. Since I do not post on other large scale forums I will post some info here and hopefully it will migrate to those sites. I asked about the interface and was told the following:

Our Just announced 1:29 Scale Peter Witt Streetcar has a standard MTC21 interface that is fully compatible with MTC21 decoders in the market.
The streetcar has a standard 8 ohm speaker so must be used with decoders that support 8 ohm speakers. We also include an standard 8 pin socket that includes a solder pin for a second function output.

#9

Well, it turns out that the MTC21 standard, is a very “loose” standard where a number of pins are at the discretion of the manufacturer.

I’m researching this and putting results on my site:

http://www.elmassian.com/trains/motive-power-mods-aamp-tips/bachmann-motive-power/peter-witt-trolley

Greg

#10

You’ve just got to love “standards” which aren’t actually standard…

#11

…just to throw a bit of new “Spice” into this marinade…wouldn’t the known member of this group, who is a “Electronics adviser” to Backmann, be a good one to jump in here and help his fellow members with his vast knowledge…?

Young Mr Ames would be the one that should be able to help…or is this not politically correct to suggest…

#12

…or, possibly I’m not up-to-date and Stanley is not in that position any longer…if so, my apologies…

#13

Oh, my goodness…there is a new rumor coming out of B’mann US of A…Doug B. is on a rampage…the place is not all peace and tranquility…no wonder there is a lot of silence from past critiques of the company…something to do with empire building, and staff moral, and a heavy fist, with the president having no control…Oh well…none of our business, as long as we, the customer can possibly get a good product from the company…and maybe a free supply of new metal axles and gears for the C19…it appears that a few are trickling back with problems…not a disaster yet…just a few…the street car was supposed to have been “Guaranteed”, trouble free…and a sign of great products ahead…

This all came with a telephone call from the area around B’mann’s head office…I can’t divulge names, on threat of a knee cap job, or a rather heavy boot, along with a deep dive…

The only reason I pass this on, is that we need a bit of humour…and a repeating comedy to watch. Something that doesn’t require speculation, just patience to watch it pass before our eyes.

#14

Yeah, too bad that the idea that any criticism is bad for the product, or “more bad” than leveling with the customers about what the real situation is.

Did not work well for Aristo, i.e. instead of saying yeah, the gauge is wrong on the Consolidation, they fought and fought, even impugning very well respected people in the hobby.

In the end they had to turn around and admit the problem, and it made people distrust them.

So, that philosophy is long term not successful, but some people are VERY slow learners, even to the point of extinction of their business.

Yep, sitting back with the popcorn on this one.

Greg

#15

Well, despite all of this. My Bachmann streetcar runs just fine, my Consolidation is still a shelf queen.

#16

There is no reason for the “Connie” to be a shelf queen…an axle with brass gear is available…just contact B’mann

I have two of them that WORK almost every operation. One still has the original gear, and the other, a NWSL replacement gear.

#17

I think he meant his Aristo Consolidation, and the Peter Witt car is fine mechanically in my opinion, David you have been running on track power, no decoder, right?

No surprises in any of this.

Greg

#18

Fred Mills, BSc, BS, SD said:

…just to throw a bit of new “Spice” into this marinade…wouldn’t the known member of this group, who is a “Electronics adviser” to Backmann, be a good one to jump in here and help his fellow members with his vast knowledge…?

Young Mr Ames would be the one that should be able to help…or is this not politically correct to suggest…

#19

Stan, the NMRA spec has places where the function of certain pins is optional.

So, can you state (officially or unoffically) if the Peter Witt car meets the NMRA or MOROP standard? From my preliminary research they are NOT identical. I know you stated the European RailCommunity specification, can you provide a link, and also how does this relate to MOROP or NEM?

The web site description does not reference any standard.

The documentation on the electronics likewise references a 21 pin decoder, but again no standard is referenced.

This makes it difficult for someone to choose a decoder, and also ensure it will work.

I’m investigating a problem and this is my next step in determining the path to follow in further debugging.

Regards, Greg

#20

Greg Elmassian said:

I think he meant his Aristo Consolidation, and the Peter Witt car is fine mechanically in my opinion, David you have been running on track power, no decoder, right?

No surprises in any of this.

Greg

Greg, yes I am running linear DC off of an Aristo track-side TE.

And yes, I was referencing my Aristo Consolidation.

I know there are flaws that come up in manufacturing, but it appears to me that this kind of thing is happening a bit too often in our hobby. Several jobs ago, I had a QC certification, no unit left the shop without a QC sign off. I took it seriously, its MY name on that tag. The other inspector felt the same. So if a unit we signed off on failed in the field, it was (usually) a customer induced failure.