I’m considering buying one of these two locos since I’m new to large scale and am limited on money. I can get the Big Hauler for around $130 and the C16 for around $270 which comes with a caboose when it become available in Feb 08. Which one of these are the better buy? I’ll be running it outdoors on brass track.
Based upon experience, and not just model trains, don’t get a first year model.
That said, the 4-6-0 is 1:22.5 scale (bigger) than the 1:24 scale Delton re-issue.
Before you buy, be aware of scale issues.
I would definitely go with the Annie. The C-16 being a 1:24 model is kind of small for most of the narrow gauge stuff available. It also has a new motor block which is untried. It may be a smooth, reliable runner out of the box…or a modeler’s nightmare. Nobody knows yet. But given Aristo’s reputation on new releases…:rolleyes:
Warren Mumpower said:Warren, :D
I would definitely go with the Annie. The C-16 being a 1:24 model is kind of small for most of the narrow gauge stuff available. It also has a new motor block which is untried. It may be a smooth, reliable runner out of the box...or a modeler's nightmare. Nobody knows yet. But given Aristo's reputation on new releases.....:rolleyes:
There will be all kinds of candidates for Alpha and Beta testing. 
:lol:
Come to think of it, Lewis could offer a 40% discount on the first production run (straight from the mfg!), that would get even more people interested and he could have a separate section on the Aristo Forum for “Bug and Glitch” reports. :lol:
Why would he need a “bug and glitch” forum?? According to Lewis they all run perfect out of the box from production model #1…:lol:
Note: Glitch #1 - GP40. It’s been reported that at least one person has found a need to hot glue the motor to the motor block.
Warren Mumpower said:
Why would he need a "bug and glitch" forum?? According to Lewis they all run perfect out of the box from production model #1....:lol:Note: Glitch #1 - GP40. It’s been reported that at least one person has found a need to hot glue the motor to the motor block.
Welllllllll you know with that kind of a discount (and all) there would be only happy customers and Lewis would be beaming! They wouldn’t dare bitch with that kind of a deal, would they???
you did ask, right?
if it were me…I’d go for a true Fn3 Bachmann engine…a 2-8-0 Connie, a 4-4-0 American, or maybe even a 0-4-0 Porter Sidetank
I first bought a 2-4-2 Rogers (Aristo on ebay-MISTAKE)
then an Annivesary Ed. Big Hauler–Nice and a good runner, but scales out wrong for me.(having to build bigger cab) a few Bachmann diesel swithcers, traded one for a Bachmann Porter Saddletank (almost 1:20.3) and the latest a Bmann Rail Truck (nice btw)…I have an American coming as soon as I get to the PO to pay for the thing.
all that said…re-read 2nd line…if you think you want to model Narrow Gauge Steam—read 2nd line…I understand the American is maybe the “best” of the 3 listed…
hope this helps! please let me know if I can help in any other way!
cale
I don’t know if the latest version of the C-16 counts as a “first year model,” as the locomotive has gone through at least 4 or 5 different power drives since its introduction two decades ago. (The 4-6-0 is also–coincidentally–on it’s 5th generation power drive.) It is, obviously, unproven, but this drive has been in development for a while (it’s at least a year late), so one can hope it’s at least as good as the last version. My dad’s had one of the last version C-16s in regular service on his railroad for a few years without issue. Either should prove adequate.
As others have stated, the C-16 is smaller–being both a smaller scale (1:24 vs. 1:22) and a smaller prototype, so if you’re going to be buying the latest 1:20 rolling stock, it will be noticeably dwarfish. The 4-6-0, while still a bit small in comparison, is at least a bit more proportionate. If you’re going to stick with the 1:22 and 1:24 equipment from Bachmann and Aristo-Craft, then either will work well. It’s a matter of which one you find more appealing.
Later,
K
rusty parks said:Rusty, Welcome to LSC!!!!
I'm considering buying one of these two locos since I'm new to large scale and am limited on money. I can get the Big Hauler for around $130 and the C16 for around $270 which comes with a caboose when it become available in Feb 08. Which one of these are the better buy? I'll be running it outdoors on brass track.
My advice:
Neither one. You will be wasting hard earned $130.00 for the Big Hauler. Go to a swap meet. I bought two for parts (They did run good) for $40.00
Most Big Haulers in our club are dead or retrofitted with Barry’s Big Train motor blocks.
You get what you pay for.
I would rather have one good running LGB Mogul than 10 Big Haulers.
The Newer Bachmann 2-8-0 is a better runner, but it does need occasional servicing.
If you insist on a Big Hauler–check e-bay. Get two or three just to keep one going.
Out of the box, the Big Hauler’s pilot will derail all the time on less than perfect track. It needs a fix immediately. Unless you power up the tender to the track, it is also a lousy runner on even so-called clean track. And so on…
I hope you aren’t scared away by all this, but I’m trying to save you a little heart-ache.
jb
John, there are a whole lot of Big Haulers and Annies running out there. I think the Annie is the best steam locomotive around for the buck. The so called tweeks are not that difficult and they will then run and run and run for years on end. There’s lots of folks around that would be willing to help you with getting an Annie up and running reliably.
Warren,
I can think of three right off hand.
Hans with a BBT rebuild. Derails constantly on various layouts.
Paul with a BBT rebuild. Burnt out.
Tony’s with an original motor, but a herking jerking fool.
The rest are in junk bins.
…“up and running reliably” is the key…
I think the original poster does not want to do that.
jb
allow me to digress…
I have an Annie, from a Sams Set (Rusty, an Annie is an Updated Drive Version of the Big Hauler with nice metal details and a good running Gear). I converted it over to RCS and Battery-my first conversion. I really like the Running Characteristics of this engine, but the scale is a little off when compared to my 45 tonner (reason for cab build as mentioned above).
…my trackage could be better, and I never have a problem with the Pilot (except it is too long and don’t look like Tweetise-and 1 hiccup on a LGB switch that I have since removed).
I have seen the LGB Mogul run, it is smooth, but for the money…to far away for me. I’m not knockin’ LGB, I’m converting a SV Switcher now for my son.
For the funds An Anniversary Edition of the Big Hauler would be my choice…and John…if you really do have some Big Haulers laying around in the junk pile, I’d love to help you clean out for the new year!
cale
John Bouck said:For the price of an LGB mogul, you can [i]afford[/i] 10 Big Haulers! ;)
I would rather have one good running LGB Mogul than 10 Big Haulers.
I’m all for saving a newcomer a little heart-ache, but implying that they need to spend at least $700 to get a reliable locomotive isn’t doing anyone any favors. All my B’mann locos run very reliably with only slight tightening of the screws here and there. These are moving models, and do need the occasional servicing and going over. It’s part of the game. You’ve got to do that with $4K Accucraft locos, too. High price doesn’t mean maintenance free. (I’ll add that my dad’s still running a 1st generation Big Hauler, albeit with replacement metal wheels)
Sure, the LGB mogul’s a reliable runner, but it doesn’t have half the detail or moving parts as much of what’s out there now from other manufacturers. Remember the old adage about complicated plumbing (it’s easier to plug up the drain.) More detail isn’t bad, it just comes with baggage.
If a beginner is on a limited budget, either loco (4-6-0 or 2-8-0) will work nicely. Sure, there may be a few minor issues that may come up, but if a person is intelligent enough to come to a forum to ask for advice in the first place, then he’s intelligent enough to return for more if he needs it.
Later,
K
Amen, brother K!
-Brian
Responses tend to malign the Big Hauler, when in reality it is the environment in which it is run which gives it its reputation. Any version prior to version 5 chassis is prone to be problematic, but then people are drawn by the relatively cheap entry level of these ‘used’ locomotives and then complain when a failure occurs. However, running on R1 curves on rough, uneven ground and making little attempt to maintain your equipment is a recipe for disaster.
I have around 15 Anniversary/Version 5 chassis and have not found a more reliable chassis. I have never experienced a pilot truck derailment, never, not even once. I run level trackwork with a decent radii. When supposed modellors move away from the ‘toytrain’ arena and start using their equipment with respect, then they will experience a more reliable modelling environment.
In so far as the new drivetrain from Aristo, then time will tell. The original Delton chassis was trouble prone and yet many experienced no running problems at all. The later Aristo designed replacement chassis (circa late '90’s) was prone to some maladies, but is generally regarded as being bulletproof. The only Achilles heel of the yet to be released chassis is that the body mouldings have not been redesigned to enable easy access to the motor/drive belt should attention be needed. I have removed several cabs from the older model Aristo C-16’s and each time was met with anticipation of something breaking in the process.
I personally would choose the anniversary version of the Bachmann Big Hauler. New prices are around $120.00. The latest version of the Aristo C-16 is very attractive, with finally an attempt at a prototypical colour scheme and not a toytrain rendition as on previous releases. This loco is although very small in stature and would look dwarfed against most other rolling stock. I have a soft spot for the older C-16 and have found it to be reliable in operation, although its construction does tend to be a little problematic as regards the body, with breakages quite common.
Just like the first aristo C-16 was a first model year, so are these.
Just because the shell is somewhat the same (but they claim non-interchangeable), with issues posted by various on the forums with the “patented drive”, I’d wait to see how it pans out.
Seriously.
On the BBT, the old 2-8-0’s would, with a rigid frame, derail.
The newer ones (4 years?) won’t.
I’ve got 4, so I know.
Burnt?
What?
A Pittman motor? Not likely.
Wiring?
Oh, like dang near everyone when you derail on a 15A supply? Maybe.
I told you before, and I’ll tell you again, lifetime warranty.
Send the chassis back.
The flexible drive is a $ upgrade, 2 of mine were older, and have been so upgraded.
I believe Rusty wants to run right out of the box instead of tinkering with our Bachmanns like we do.
I may be wrong.
Yes the Anniversary Edition of the Big Hauler should be your choice, Rusty.
Not the first Big Haulers.
My junk pile is composed of early Haulers–no Annies.
One is going to become a static wreck on the layout at the bottom of a canyon.
Another will be parked on a siding so it looks like there are a few trains in town.
Another will be parked by the engine house in an ever present state of repair by the back shop.
They will be left out, rain or shine. Along with a short string of Bachmann cars I bought pretty cheap.
That way, when I pass by the layout or look out the window, a train will be included, besides the buildings.
As to rather having one LGB Mogul than 10 Haulers, Kevin, that’s my story and I’m stickin’ to it! 
TOG
Probably don’t really want my input, but I’ll give it anyway. My favorite is… a combination of both. I have a c-16 with a bug mauler (Pennsy 2 window) cab, and widened (real wood) pilot. I also got rid of the weird oversized not-quite classification lights by replacing them with boiler cleanout castings. The next step will be to kitsmash a b’mann tender using the Aristo trucks and electronics to match the wider cab (and a more real coal load). OK, it isn’t quite a scale ANYTHING, but I’m rather happy with it.
I haven’t had a 5th gen/ Annie, yet…because they’re still a bit steep for my pocketbook for a B’mann. But, I’ve had one of every previous incarnation, including the original…I will just say that they kept upgrading for a reason. The c-16 I have weighs quite a bit more than the B’manns too.
For those that poo-poo the LGB mogul as too expensive, used ones in good condition are actually quite reasonable. They are nearly everywhere for a reason, with a little care they’ll run practically forever. No, they aren’t “scale” either…but you can paint and detail them to be less toy like
John, do you have a tender body in your junk box you’d part with? lol
Mik, if he doesn’t, I do. Drop me an e-mail if you’re interested.
Later,
K
Mik,
I have one, but unfortunately, I’m converting it to a water car for a tank mallet. Even though the mallet has saddle tanks, the water car is for batteries.
Go for Kevin’s.
Next swap is Feb. I’ll see if I can find some junkers for your guys.
jb