- Do all the new 3 truck Shays come with sound?
- I saw one in the local train store today. Is the 3rd truck not suppose to swivel like the front 2?
Just because I’m guessing Dave’s answered this one too many times elsewhere for it to be fun:
You can have either. If it has a “4” in the middle of the number, it’s no sound, if it has a 6, it has the DCC/Sound module (as in 82498 (no decoder) vs. 82698 (DCC).)
If you want one WITHOUT DCC, you have your choice of Undec Black, Undec Black with Red/White trim, Meadow River, and Oregon Lumber. Of those, the Meadow River and the Red/White/Black ones have a steel cab, and the other two have wood panelled cabs.
The DCC equipped ones are the the undec with red/white, the Little River, and the Westside Lumber. These all have steel cabs.
As to the third truck, it does swivel, but the whole bunker swivels with it, just like on the real three truck Shay, which is to say it’s fixed to the bunker, but is towed like a four wheel (powered) tender, so it can swivel just as if it had a pivot. On a four truck Shay, you’re back to the swivelling trucks… but since the entire support for the bunker is the four wheels of the third truck, if it turned independantly of the truck, it’d wag back and forth like a tail, and be relatively unstable, as all that water bunker sloshing around would be on one center pin.
Make sense?
Matthew (OV)
Yup, he’s right.
The swivelling truck works okay when going forward, but jacknifes going bacwards.
DCC sound.
Well, if you want something that tales 8.5VDC to start moving, have no control over bell, whistle, chuff or volume without a DCC system or programmer, and something that has a current rating of 3.5amps (and a 3-truck Shay with 12-15 loaded log cars on the 4% grade up from Mound house WILL trip a 4A breaker) then it’s just the ticket!
Oh, and at 21VDC it shuts down.
That does give you a 12.5v spread to work with.
And, for the extra hundred bucks, when you find out you can’t use it, you can pitch it and buy something that WILL work.
Now, if you’re going DCC, and never going to have any grades, hey, it’s just the ticket…maybe.
I do have a Westside 3-truck Shay, so I do know what it will and will not do.
Curmudgeon said:Now, is that 3.5 amps continuous or max current surge? As I understand it the required maximum current surge capability of a DCC decoder is, that the decoder should be able to sustain the current rating for 1, as in ONE, cycle of the DCC data flow. Assuming the baud rate is 14 kilobits per second, approximately 1:14,000 of a second.
SNIP Well, if you want something that tales 8.5VDC to start moving, have no control over bell, whistle, chuff or volume without a DCC system or programmer, and something that has a current rating of 3.5amps (and a 3-truck Shay with 12-15 loaded log cars on the 4% grade up from Mound house WILL trip a 4A breaker) then it's just the ticket!
I would ask what the CONTINUOUS current rating is.
I would have liked to bold the word ONE above but don’t know how to.
Tony, when you go to post a message, if you look just below the box where you write your message you will see where it says “BBCode: on”, click on the BBCode part and it will take you to the instructions on how to do all the functions. Bold would look like this: (b)one(/b) but use square brackets [] instead. I had to use the () to keep it from showing bold, but in the end your one would look like this: one.
Matthew (OV) said:
Just because I'm guessing Dave's answered this one too many times elsewhere for it to be fun:You can have either. If it has a “4” in the middle of the number, it’s no sound, if it has a 6, it has the DCC/Sound module (as in 82498 (no decoder) vs. 82698 (DCC).)
If you want one WITHOUT DCC, you have your choice of Undec Black, Undec Black with Red/White trim, Meadow River, and Oregon Lumber. Of those, the Meadow River and the Red/White/Black ones have a steel cab, and the other two have wood panelled cabs.
The DCC equipped ones are the the undec with red/white, the Little River, and the Westside Lumber. These all have steel cabs.
As to the third truck, it does swivel, but the whole bunker swivels with it, just like on the real three truck Shay, which is to say it’s fixed to the bunker, but is towed like a four wheel (powered) tender, so it can swivel just as if it had a pivot. On a four truck Shay, you’re back to the swivelling trucks… but since the entire support for the bunker is the four wheels of the third truck, if it turned independantly of the truck, it’d wag back and forth like a tail, and be relatively unstable, as all that water bunker sloshing around would be on one center pin.
Make sense?
Matthew (OV)
hmmmmmmmmmmmm… ok thanks for the response… however… that’s not clear to me
So… they do not all have onboard sound… correct?
and
the rear truck does not swivel like the front 2 trucks. Which means, the trailing knuckle is rigid and does not move at all… correct?
There are both, and the rear truck is fixed to the water bunker tender.
It just follows exactly like a 4-wheeled, short-wheelbase car would.
Little River (82697) Steel cab- dcc sound decoder
Westside (82698) Steel cab- dcc sound decoder
Red/White/Black undec (82699) Steel cab- dcc sound decoder
Oregon Lumber Co. (82494) Wood cab- non-dcc
Meadow River (82496) Steel cab- non-dcc
Red/Black/White undec (82498) Steel cab- non-dcc
Black/White undec (82499) Wood cab- non-dcc
Note third digit indicates (4) non-dcc, (6) dcc sound decoder
Hey TOC… sorry! Not following the lingo… I know… it’s just me
However… I purchased a 3 truck Shay today and am wondering…
I thought they all had sound. No biggy… I am more than willing to install appropriate sound based on what I have heard
However… I am rather alarmed that the rear truck does not move… not budge… nada! Per the DVD that comes with the Shay
- The read truck in the DVD does swivel as do the other 2. Mine does not. It is rigid. Which also means the read knuckle coupler is also rigid… dead center. This does not seem correct to me.
- There are 2 wire plug ins from the loco to the rear tender in the DVD. Mine has only 1 large one.
- There are 2 holes in the prong from the rear of the loco for the rear tender in the video… mine has only one.
In your situation, it’s a blessing.
The prototype swivelled, they found out that would not work (if you insist, not hard to make it swivel), and production units went to one plug vs 2.
Split into two 4-wire bundles in hoses to simulate water feed lines.
Now, with it plugged in, if your rear truck doesn’t MOVE, as in the wheels are locked and dragging along, there is a well-written, easy-to-follow procedure on these very pages.
Look in “Reviews”
Check and call me.
TOC
Curmudgeon said:
In your situation, it's a blessing. The prototype swivelled, they found out that would not work (if you insist, not hard to make it swivel), and production units went to one plug vs 2. Split into two 4-wire bundles in hoses to simulate water feed lines. Now, with it plugged in, if your rear truck doesn't MOVE, as in the wheels are locked and dragging along, there is a well-written, easy-to-follow procedure on these very pages. Look in "Reviews" Check and call me.TOC
The rear wheels do indeed rotate. The truck does not move… does not swivel. Hopefully I am explaining that correctly. The truck on the bottom of the trailing tender is fixed… not the wheels… just the truck. If that is correc then so be it. However, as I stated, the DVD that came with the Shay shows the trialing truck swiveling just like the front 2.
Okay.
Look at truck #1.
When it goes around a curve, the coupler follows the truck, right?
Look at truck #3. It does exactly the same thing.
If it swivelled, and you were backing up a long string, the drawbar would push on the frame of the water bunker, but the coupler is on the truck itself.
The coupler is going to lean one way, the drawbar will push the other, and it will look absolutely stoopid, then jack-knife all over.
The drawbar is supposed to have one hole. On Purpose.
On 1100 curves (somebody I know has those), if you coupled it “close” with a heavy train, on a right hand curve you would bottom the side shaft and SNAP the u-joints.
I tell folks it’s like software. Comes with a default setup, and an “advanced” tab. Until you know what you’re doing (like what happens on 1100 curves), don’t touch the “advanced tab”.
And call me.
TOC
Curmudgeon said:
Okay. Look at truck #1. When it goes around a curve, the coupler follows the truck, right? Look at truck #3. It does exactly the same thing. If it swivelled, and you were backing up a long string, the drawbar would push on the frame of the water bunker, but the coupler is on the truck itself. The coupler is going to lean one way, the drawbar will push the other, and it will look absolutely stoopid, then jack-knife all over.The drawbar is supposed to have one hole. On Purpose.
On 1100 curves (somebody I know has those), if you coupled it “close” with a heavy train, on a right hand curve you would bottom the side shaft and SNAP the u-joints.I tell folks it’s like software. Comes with a default setup, and an “advanced” tab. Until you know what you’re doing (like what happens on 1100 curves), don’t touch the “advanced tab”.
And call me.
TOC
OK… However, the coupler on the back of the trailing tender is rigid as is the truck. It does not move. Is this normal?
will call you tomorrow… thanks
They do those manuals and DVD’s from pre-production photo units (and never, ever send one to me to “wring out”).
They find “issues” and “fix” them, but the photos, manuals, DVD are already long done.
If you make the truck swivel, you will have more problems than you ever imagined if you try to back up.
But, I can make it swivel for you.
Take less than 15 minutes, and is non-reversible (no system restore).
TOC
Well, unless the pivot screw at the coupler is locking it down, the truck bodies on all three are exactly the same, as are the wheels, sideframes, motors, and couplers and mounts on 1 & 3.
They work just exactly like the two-truck Shays, in fact, the trucks and couplers are identical to the later two-truck.
Only difference is the side shafts.
Curmudgeon said:
They do those manuals and DVD's from pre-production photo units (and never, ever send one to me to "wring out"). They find "issues" and "fix" them, but the photos, manuals, DVD are already long done.If you make the truck swivel, you will have more problems than you ever imagined if you try to back up.
But, I can make it swivel for you.
Take less than 15 minutes, and is non-reversible (no system restore).TOC
Got it! My question was should it swivel… not should I make it swivel. Sounds like non swivel is the ticket. Pefect! That’s how it is.
Also, wondering how to really get in there and lube the trucks without dropping the bottoms. The DVD says to NOT drop the bottoms, but to lube through the holes after removing the caps
Curmudgeon said:
Well, unless the pivot screw at the coupler is locking it down, the truck bodies on all three are exactly the same, as are the wheels, sideframes, motors, and couplers and mounts on 1 & 3.They work just exactly like the two-truck Shays, in fact, the trucks and couplers are identical to the later two-truck.
Only difference is the side shafts.
Understood… however, the rear knuckle coupler, connected to the rear truck (which does not move) is rigid. Even the rear knuckle coupler of my 2 truck Shay is not rigid as the rear truck of it is not rigid as well.
I know.
There’s a word for that, kinda like a railroad but spelled differently.
MONON, I think.
Anyway, I pull the bottom covers to lubricate.
Just be advised, sometime the rectangular pickup spacer sticks to the bottom cover and needs to be put back between the pickups whhen you’re done.
I from time to time will pull the trucks, then the two top covers, to get the gears and shafts real good.
TOC
I think, after looking at the 3-truck Shay this morning, that we just were using different terminology.
The third unit does not pivot, trus, but the short body and truck allows the coupler to follow the curves exactly like the lead truck does.
Try it and see.
BTW, again, if using body-mounted couplers, the truck can be free to pivot as all dynamic forces imposed by a long train while backing are transmitted through the frame of the third unit to the drawbar, and then to the main body.
TOC
Curmudgeon said:
I think, after looking at the 3-truck Shay this morning, that we just were using different terminology. The third unit does not pivot, trus, but the short body and truck allows the coupler to follow the curves exactly like the lead truck does.Try it and see.
BTW, again, if using body-mounted couplers, the truck can be free to pivot as all dynamic forces imposed by a long train while backing are transmitted through the frame of the third unit to the drawbar, and then to the main body.
TOC
Yeah…that’s what I figured. All looks fine.
I also removed the bottoms of each truck this morning to really get in there and give it a lub.
Did some painting on it today and am presently placing some custom decals on it.
Got a few more questions:
- Can the front and rear be removed to paint similar to how the West Side Lumber is painted? I didn’t see anyway to take the ends off to paint.
- Would one ever see parts of a logging loco painted? Or is black the color (other than perhaps the roof)?
- Is the oil bunker top suppose to be loose and just sitting on the top behind the cab?