Large Scale Central

Aristo track price increase

Track and Trestles
#81

Hello John.

john reilly said:
Tony how much does it cost to change a loco over to battery about 150 to 200 dollars how if we buy alum track where's the savings and once the demand for battery goes so does the price r/c and alum track
The savings in Aluminium and Battery R/C power versus brass/Stainless and track power, isn't only in the intial purchase price, which in itself is substantial. Savings are also achieved because expensive track joiners are no longer needed. Plus you save all the cost of wiring the layout.

One thing I can guarantee you is that RCS will not be raising prices if the demand for battery R/C goes up.
When the volume gets to the level where I can’t make everything I sell (apart from the TX-24 & RX-8), I will contract out the work and produce at a lower cost because the volumes would justify me doing so.

That is how the electronics industry works.
It isn’t like the mining industry where they can manipulate the supply to their own advantage.

#82

I like my battery and R/C. Also, we have solar panels that produce over 3 k a day so we really aren’t paying anything to recharge! And we are adding solar batteries to light the inside of buildings on the layout! A tinkerers delight!

#83

Time to make that solar train! Solar cells on top of the box cars, and it might just work!

Regards, Greg

#84

I;ll have to see how big a panel would create enough volts! It would only run in daylight but if we wire in batteries…

#85

Can you make one that runs on rain…:frowning: :frowning:

#86

I doubt solar panels will have enough grunt to power the locos.

What you could do is use solar panels during the day to charge up say two 12 volt deep discharge car batteries in parallel.
Then switch the car batteries into series and charge your on board loco batteries overnight from the car batteries.

#87

All “12 volt” solar panels put out enough voltage to charge a "12 volt’ battery. Typically this is ~15 to 16 volts open circuit. Voltage is not the problem.

My 16" x 48" panels theoretically put out ~33 watts each in full noon sun. The fact is that I am lucky to see an average of 20 to 25 watt-hours / hour on good sunny days and while the sun is 30 degrees or more above the horizon. That would make for ~2 amps max. That amount of energy will certainly run small locomotives, but it comes in a difficult to use form factor! Finding room and mounting on a LS locomotive or car for a 16" x 48" panel would seem to make this a non-starter.

The smaller ‘battery maintainer’ panels usually put out a maximum of ~5 watts or ~0.4 amps. Not many locomotives that will run on less than 5 watts even though the panel is a much more appropriate size. And still, the slightest shadow will definitely cause an unplanned ‘fuel stop’.

One could put in a full solar system with a charge controller and storage batteries to successfully power the RR, but the cost for that specialized use as compared to just plugging a power supply or charger into the wall is very high. There is no free lunch!!

Happy RRing,

Jerry

#88
Jerry Bowers said:
...................................

One could put in a full solar system with a charge controller and storage batteries to successfully power the RR, but the cost for that specialized use as compared to just plugging a power supply or charger into the wall is very high. There is no free lunch!!

Happy RRing,

Jerry


Jerry,

Here in the GWN Canadian Tire had solar systems in their flyer a week or two back, along with wind turbines. I did a quick calculation and my eyes popped really wide open. Holy bat poop, that stuff runs into real money!

#89

The inital cost outlay will blow your mind or…I figured the payback to be about 15 years but that was before Edison’s increases. I don’t plan to move with the railroad so it’s worth it in the long run. I do enjoy not paying my retirement to the power company!

#90
Hans-Joerg Mueller said:
Holy bat poop, that stuff runs into real money!
Nobody ever said that economy is cheap. ;)

tac

#91

The new green alternate power industry has highlighted one main point - to save money, one needs to spend money. The return on the ‘investment’ is long term and credit on one’s power bill is given by the utility companies for any power fed back into the utility grid. Conceiveably, a householder could eventually become self sufficient with power needs, by use of solar panels, inverters and storage batteries. The downside is that this technology is going to cost around $40k - $50k and ideally is built into the house during initial construction. Some States will reimburse the homeowner for a proportion of money spent on green energy.

An interesting development is utility companies that provide a complete green power source to a large supermarket development, at no cost to the shop owners. The shop owners then contract the utility provider to provide power at a contract price over a 25 year period, with power drawn from the green inverter banks in daylight hours and utility-sourced power in the non-daylight hours.

A solar train is a possibility, but I would not be holding my breath waiting for it to arrive at the station.

#92

You snooze you lose.
USA was up 30%, with the note it could go up tomorrow morning.
This is tomorrow morning.
Up another 30%, compounded it’s 60% or so.

Still not as bad as 100%…

#93

China is not forced to do anything guys! If you’ve been watching China the last year or two, this was their plan all along. They have cornered the concrete market and the steel market. It was just a matter of time before this happened. What Aristo and the others need to do is quit shifting manufacturing to the third world countries for cheap labor and send it back to the good old USA! Now what we need is an entrepaneur with some money and he could take the rail traffic away from all of these crooks! My opinion of course!

#94

Allen,
it is an unfortunate fact of life that China is quickly losing credibility as a source of 'cheaply manufacturered goods (this does not imply 'cheaply made goods). rising currency value, labour laws as regards a fair wage and overall rising costs of raw materials has seen the price of Chinese sourced goods rise. This has nothing to do with anyone ‘ripping’ anyone off. Post World War 2, western countries looked to Asia as a source of cheaply made items, beginning with Japan, Taiwan, Korea and then China. Western companies have invested millions in industrial complexes to utilise the once cheap source of labour. The Chinese government fostered this investment with tax-free industrial manufacturing zones.

   While it may seem that the 'Chinese' are manipulating the market,  the simple answer is that China,  like the rest of the world is subjected to the economic market and like the rest of the world,  has to compete for raw materials.  Who knows where the new industrial market may be - Vietnam, Mexico, South America or maybe the newly emerging ex-Russian states,  looking for western capital investment.  The Chinese Dragon,  like the Korean Tiger,  has outgrown its original attraction to western companies.
#95

If we’re really going to focus on RC Battery Power (which was in my plan before the price fiasco hit), I wonder if someone can produce an engineered recycled plastic with the right finish and texture to use for rail. It may not have the “clickety clack down the railroad track” sound, and it couldn’t be the Thomas the Train style, but if it could be produced and sold for under $2 US per foot, I can see the herd of cats changing course…
Heck, the ties are already plastic. Yes, plastic is oil-based, but if we’re using solar power to recharge the batteries, why can’t some level of recycled plastic be adapted for this use. Green power ain’t just the old BN.
Mark

#96

It’s not that it can’t be done…because it’s already been done but the problem with plastic is wear. It would wear out too fast. Currently, aluminum seems to be the best bet balancing wear and price for the battery mafia.

#97

Brian,

You better read my previous message again…I never said anything about ripoffs!! I said that China is manipulating the market and I’ll stand by that comment. I know all about world economies and such and we don’t need you to give us a lesson on third world economies. If the United States wasn’t so eager to sell out to the highest bidder and keep Made in America, Made in America, then we wouldn’t be having this discussion. If we are all willing to pay three bucks a gallon for gasoline and four bucks a gallon for milk, then I guess we will pay double for Aristo Track. Otherwise, bring the manufacturing back to America where it belongs and the heck with the Chineese and their high cost american steel!

Oh, if you don’t believe it is American Steel, then what are those steel refinery ships doing off the coast sitting next to those American Lumber Mill ships??

#98

Allen,
Quote…“Now what we need is an entrepaneur with some money and he could take the rail traffic away from all of these crooks! My opinion of course!”

    You state that you said nothing of ripoffs and yet your own words condemn you by your inference that manufacturers,  outside of America are quote, "crooks'.  You seem to think that your opinion is a valid one and yet criticise the rights of another to make his opinion known.  If you want to play with fire then prepared to get burned,  as an ill-prepared biassed opinion holds no weight in a discussion.



    You really do need a lesson in third world manufacturing politics as a simple look at history will reveal that it was the good ole' USofA who started the trend to 'manipulate' third world market economies,  back at the close of WW2 when the occupying forces in Japan instituted an economy to milk for the good of America,  by having a source of cheap labour.  This trend has continued to this day,  with Asia still being the source of 'cheap' labour for the American market.



     China is in the midst of an economic boom,  with the local demand for concrete and steel outstripping the needs of the American market.  Demand is directly proportional to supply,  resulting in high prices for concrete and steel on both the local (Chinese) and American markets.  Simple economics,  but then you already knew all that didn't you.   If China was not the largest steel producer in the world then we would not be having this discussion.  The American businessman decided long ago that a cheaper source of steel and commodities was beneficial to profit and so 'jobs' were outsourced.  You pay a high price for petrol due world parity pricing.  You pay a high price for milk because of restrictrive trade tariffs and bounties to protect the American primary producer against the onslaught of cheaper imported milk.  Anything more you need to know then just post away,  but then you already know all this.
#99
Tim Brien said:
SNIP The American businessman decided long ago that a cheaper source of steel and commodities was beneficial to profit and so 'jobs' were outsourced.
....along with all the pollution that industry creates being exported as well.

To be fair, it is not just the American businessman doing it.
Every developed country in the World has an inexorable urge to satisfy demand at the lowest possible cost. That includes not just lower cost labour but also, our (much) stricter anti pollution laws.

#100

You know Brian, you must be living in china to feel the way you do. First of all, Japan never did anything for our benefit. If it wasn’t for our handout after WWII, they would still be behind the eight ball. Whose money do you think built Japan and made it possible for their success in the global market? China’s economic boom is due in a big way to Walmart!

You must be kidding if you think the rise in milk prices are do to imports. We do not import milk, we produce it and possibly export it!

I thought this discussion was about the Aristo Craft’s “Rip off” over doubling their track prices due to higher cost of steel in China which comes from American Steel Refinery ships off the coast, but I guess you missed that part.

I can see I’m wasting my time with this topic, so I shall not respond to your nonesense again. If China is so much rewarding to you, maybe you should be living there. I cannot believe that you support rising costs to the American people by submitting to the economic woes of China. You need to wake up and support America or find another place to live…that is if your not already living there!

America deserves to have the jobs back in America and not in third world countries. If these American companies can’t compete in the global economy without manufacturing their American products overseas, then they should not be able to hold themselves out as American companies at all…and that includes Walmart!