The Chinese mindset on this is;
TOYS We make them cheap, you don’t fix, you replace.
We don’t need no stinkin’ parts!
Money that’s what we want.
The sad thing is that the parts business can be lucrative, if managed right. Ever have axles/gears out of stock at USAT? Not in the last 10 years, and Charles Ro is not in it just for the fun. (and good for him!).
Greg
I am in total agreement with Greg’s attempts to educate us about how it really will be. I stand by my pessimistic post earlier in this thread. I am not an LGB expert, but what has happened to them? Is there much LGB stuff coming out of China? And how long has it taken for anything to appear.
The Chinese mindset is also:
‘You owe me NOTHING. You pay me NOW!’
(http://www.largescalecentral.com/application/modules/Chat/externals/images/wink.png)
Andrew
Paul Bottino said:
I am in total agreement with Greg’s attempts to educate us about how it really will be. I stand by my pessimistic post earlier in this thread. I am not an LGB expert, but what has happened to them? Is there much LGB stuff coming out of China? And how long has it taken for anything to appear.
This is what Spur G News posted more than a year ago
Die Formen (Werkzeugbau) für Lokomotiven und Wagen sind aus China zurückgeholt worden und die Produktion von LGB erfolgt ausschließlich in Györ/Ungarn.
HJ’s translation: “The molds for the engines and cars have been re-patriated from China and the production of LGB items happens exclusively at Györ/Hungary”
While there hasn’t been a large number of new items appearing on the market, new items e.g. the Allegra, the E10 etc. are coming to market.
To see what is new check here http://www.lgb.de/de/service/veroeffentlichungen/neuheiten.html
Shortly after Märklin acquired the remaining LGB, Märklin went into insolvency. How Märklin will fare under new owners - the Siebers (they also own the Simba-Group) - remains to be seen. As the saying goes “Hope springs eternal”.
Unlike the ARISTO spare parts situation, there are several sources for LGB parts.
While it is true that there are bad apples in all cultures, I have found that most companies in Hong Kong are highly respectable and do high quality work.
I have grown to know and respect several over there and the generalities expressed here do not represent what I have viewed in person first hand.
It takes time to find the molds, order the sub parts you do not make which are part of the process, load the molds, set up a production line do the quality control on the run …
That is why if you order the parts when the product is being produced. It is much more cost effective. If you do not order the parts, then your only real choice is to take apart a model for its parts. There is a whole cottage industry in model railroading who do just that.
Stan
I’m sure in the next few years with the rise of 3d printing, you can make your own parts far cheaper then ordering them from a company
Mark Dash said:
I’m sure in the next few years with the rise of 3d printing, you can make your own parts far cheaper then ordering them from a company
The caviat of that will be based on the quality of the plastic that can be used in the printers, currently some can be very brittle(I’m thinking gears here). Whats needed is for some poindexter type to develop a 3D printer that can make metal parts out of higher quality metals like brass.
Vic Smith said:
Mark Dash said:
I’m sure in the next few years with the rise of 3d printing, you can make your own parts far cheaper then ordering them from a company
The caviat of that will be based on the quality of the plastic that can be used in the printers, currently some can be very brittle(I’m thinking gears here). Whats needed is for some poindexter type to develop a 3D printer that can make metal parts out of higher quality metals like brass.
Vic,
You DO know that 3D printing can also use brass and stainless material? That is being done now. I just read it last week in a “trades” magazine. Be careful what you wish for. The future is NOW! In fact, I have been researching a 1/8th scale, Pacific Electric pneumatic trolley pole for my 1.5" Baldwin/Westinghouse freight motor. Originally, I was going to use a high quality plastic. But after reading about now using brass, I think I might go in that direction.
The issue with making aftermarket parts is the copyrights that the original manufacturer has on their product. Sure, you could print out parts for your SD67 or GP312, but if you release the file so others can print their own parts have you infringed on the copyright? I don’t know. If you charge for the parts, then you have probably infringed on the copyright.
I work in an industry where spare parts are the lifeblood of the industry. The challenge is having enough of the right parts and not too many of parts that there isn’t much of a call for. It seams a waste to cannibalize a good piece of equipment for parts, but we have to from time to time. But we are in a position where we can order the parts and put that cannibalized piece of equipment back into service. I have to wonder, what happened to all the “stripped” locomotives that Aristo had?
There are companies that exist only to produce parts, like Grandt line. So parts doesn’t have to be a money loosing proposition, if its done right.
I would have thought that if the replacement parts were created by copying from original other maker parts, eg pantographing, then that is piracy.
However, if the new parts were created in total by the person making said parts, there is no original copyright to apply.
Tony Walsham said:
I would have thought that if the replacement parts were created by copying from original other maker parts, eg pantographing, then that is piracy.
However, if the new parts were created in total by the person making said parts, there is no original copyright to apply.
If I draw parts, using MasterCam on MY computer, these are my drawings and therefore my parts. I can make subtle changes to dimensions and surfaces AND STILL own the “copyright” to my parts. You would never know the difference between Aristo or Accucraft or Bachmann parts from MY designed parts.
David, I sent an email to Aristo asking if they were going to sell the material “on the wall”. It was a whole wall of the showroom that had the cannibalized stuff was on. Never got a reply. I will post the picture I took there if I can find it. It was a lot of good parts there.
“copyrights” also depend on the part, detail parts that are prototypical cannot be copyrighted (which has been argued in courts in various scales) because the part is based on an an existing object the modeler did not create.
In actuality aristo or any other model company can be sued by owner of the patent of the life size prototype part if they make something “true to prototype based on patent info”
Based on that, I can make a cab of an RS-3 that is an exact copy of aristo, and as long as there is a prototype engine that looks like both, then they have no "rights: to the product
Lou, yea I’ll bet they didn’t. But I am sure it would have worth a lot.
Gary and Mark, ok. That makes sense. For the detail parts and external parts. I hadn’t thought that all the way through.
Once a design is in circulation then submitted to a printing service for a one off for personal usage there is no copyright issue anyway. Legalities of copying mean absolutely nothing. It all comes down to how much a company wants to spend on legal processes on what they can rightfully claim and prove as a monitory loss. Like copying a single video, if the technology for the individual is available it will be copied.
Andrew
Lou Luczu said:
David, I sent an email to Aristo asking if they were going to sell the material “on the wall”. It was a whole wall of the showroom that had the cannibalized stuff was on. Never got a reply. I will post the picture I took there if I can find it. It was a lot of good parts there.
A pity you did not get a reply Lou.
However I can see a point by keeping parts or stock. I have nearly sixty items of rolling stock (not including locos). Fortunately I got into the hobby before the recession, so prices and availability were good. I am not looking to buy more.
I have thought of selling some stock but realized that if I were to need new freight trucks (say due to a derailment) or or wish to kitbash a boxcar or reefer, then the money I would realize from a sale of stock may equal - or even be less as time goes by - than the replacement items.
So I am hanging on to what I have.
Alan Lott said:
I have thought of selling some stock but realized that if I were to need new freight trucks (say due to a derailment) or or wish to kitbash a boxcar or reefer, then the money I would realize from a sale of stock may equal - or even be less as time goes by - than the replacement items.So I am hanging on to what I have.
I came to that same realization after I sold off a large number of 1:24 pieces. Fortunately, those sales did finance some 1:20 stock which I am still buying when I can find a really good deal.
Hi Gary.
Agree with you.
Many years ago a white metal casting company here in Australia made castings for me using my original patterns. Not large scale.
However, unbeknown to me said company were also copying the work of others such as Woodland Scenics and Alloy Forms, among others and selling the pirated copies as their own. I had finished dealing with them before they got caught and had to “cease and desist”.