Is there an alternate to plastic/composition 1x4 landscaping (bender board) edging used as ladder track rails when building an elevated (2 to 3.5 feet) roadway? The greatest criticism on the aforementioned is sagging between posts even when spaced at 5’. I am connecting an existing grade level layout with an existing table top with some 88 feet of purely utility functional (esthetics be damned, but not cost) single rack using 1-5/8 posts in concrete.
Bill
Hi Bill
I have a long elevated strainght away that I used PT 2x4’s on. I took the 2x4’s and screwed them together to form a “T” . About every 8’ I put in a support. This system is good for straights but i don’t know what you would do in the curves. 
Thanks Todd, but I have two 90° turns each with an 8 foot radius.
Here is the way I do it. I use 12’ long 1X6 clear cedar and rip in down the center, then turn on edge and rip those pieces in two. For the cross stringers, I by cheaper 1X6 cedar fence boards and rip the down the center and cut them about 1/2’ shorter than you want the width of your road bed. I space the cross stringers about 8" apart. Using deck screws, I screw everything together and then cut 3’4" blue or pink styrofoam for the top.
Rodney
Steel bar stock would be pricey, but would give you a much longer unsupported span and not very hard to bend. I believe Richard Smith uses redwood or cedar (He’s in Port Orford, famous for their Cedar wood).
I use 19mm (aprox .75") X 1.5" foamed PVC trim board. I support about every two feet with no sag. I would expect significant sag in my choice of material over a five foot span.
Bill if i remember the person that came up with ladder system said put a support every
15 in.
Richard
Bill,
I used 1X4 nominal composit trim boards sold at Lowes in 16 foot lengths. I used 2X4 pressure treated for posts on 4’ centers, every other post set in concrete and the others set on concrete bricks. The track bed I made 8 inches wide using sections of PT 2X4, they were placed vertically at the posts and flat in between on approx. 16 inch centers. by doing that the track only has to span 9-12 inches and you get very little dipping as the locomotive travels over the line.
As I said in reply to your e-mail I get very little if any sagging between the 4 foot centers with the material I used. One problem with the composit is that the cut ends tend to swell a little from moisture, but then that hasn’t really been an issue this year has it.
This construct has been in place about 4-5 years now and still looking good.
See you at the dinner in a couple weeks.
Rick
Hey Bill the lattice system I use is made out of redwood and is supported about every 2’. The picture shows a new section I finished just before our winter set in. It’s going over the top of my new tunnel and will get track come this Spring.
I bought some garden edging made from plastic that looks like decking (about 3" x 1/2").
It’s quite flexible. I have not set it up as yet though.
Has anyone used it before?
Andrew
This is what I used on mine:
http://www.royalmouldings.com/s4sproductpage.html#
If the 3 1/2" wasn’t available I used the 6" and ripped it in half.
Bill,
Alternates to plastic are few. Our club used the ladder system with 1/2 x 3 PVC material for the stringers and 2" schedule 40 (2.375 OD) pipe supports set in concrete. The average height of the layout is around 30". Here is a link to a picture on our web site showing the under construction condition.
http://www.ecgrc.com/images/FILE0019.JPG
I provided the link as the picture is large (over 800 x 600) and I can’t get to it at the minute to shrink and embed.
A couple things we have learned over the five years the layout has been running. First, the track and the sub roadbed will expand and contract at considerably different rates. The track sees full sun, and the sub road bed is buried keeping it much cooler. Regardless of it being buried, it will sag. Our posts are approximately 24" c/c and we have now had to make minor adjustments twice to re-level the track. Second, the pictures show the fill going up to the top of the sub road bed. If we had it to do again, we would only fill to the bottom of the ladder and use gravel/landscape to finish making the track the highest point and allowing for good drainage.
As for an alternate, possibly using Pressure Treated furring strip (approximately 1/4-1/2 x 1 1/2). These could possibly be done similarly to Rodney’s, but doubled up and glued on assembly. From our experiences I would recommend using no smaller than 1 1/2" schedule 40 pipe (1.90" in OD) for risers. They are a bit more expensive, but they are much stiffer than the 1 1/4" (1.66in OD) it sounds like you are planning to use.
Peruse the Emerald Coast Garden Railway Club web site, in particular the Jordon Lot Project link for a host of pics of our layout.
Bob C.
If you have FireFox, right click on the photo, then select “View Image,” to see the whole photo.
Thanks Steve cool looking RR. Later RJD
Thanks to all for your interest and responses to my query. In summation, the short answer seems to be, “Nope”, not for curves anyway. So it looks like I will use fewer post for the straight runs using 2x4s and more posts, 4’ OC for the curves using comp bender board.
Todd, I will be using your ideas of 2x4s Teed for the straight stretches.
Rodney, cedar is nice wood if you can get it, but here in the Sacramento Valley it is a premium. Pecky cedar for some raised beds was not cheap.
Jon, yup steel bar stock is beyond my budget, and PVC trim is a little scarce at HD and Lowes yesterday,
Richard, every 15” is good for grade level roadbed. I have used it extensively on one of my layouts. ¾” sched 40 pvc is cheap compared to sturdier posts I will need to get the ~ 40” height.
Rick, yup 4” OC it will be, moisture! What’s that? See you on the 19th.
Chuck, what you have will work well at grade. It worked for me. But I am up in the air and steel post on 2’ centers will not fit the budget.
Garratt, try to support it vertically 2 or three feet, and push down on the span. You will have your answer.
Ken, I am going to pursue RoyalMoulding later this week. I t sounds like Tuf Board HD used to carry. Tuf Board worked well for me at grade level but HD no longer has it. Too many complaints from the Construction trade.
Bob, again you are at grade level and I can see where you will have a problem with 24” c/c. I kept my PVC post at 16” oc and used Tuf Board ¾ x 2-1/2 for stringers.
Bill
Bill Gebhardt said:
Is there an alternate to plastic/composition 1x4 landscaping (bender board) edging used as ladder track rails when building an elevated (2 to 3.5 feet) roadway? The greatest criticism on the aforementioned is sagging between posts even when spaced at 5’. I am connecting an existing grade level layout with an existing table top with some 88 feet of purely utility functional (esthetics be damned, but not cost) single rack using 1-5/8 posts in concrete.
BillChuck, what you have will work well at grade. It worked for me. But I am up in the air …
Bill, just because Chuck chooses to use his ladder at ground level, don’t sell it short. It is laminated, both sides are a half inch thick of redwood, and very strong. If it is on a curve, it is even stronger. I am certain that it would be quite satisfactory for your needs.
You are correct that landscape edging will not work for an elevated railroad, though many have tried. Trex even needs to be supported at 2 ft intervals or less to prevent sagging on a straight.
Wood is different, though. You should be able to get by with 4 - 5 ft intervals, as long as you promise not to try to walk on it. Lamination adds strength.
Bill Gebhardt said:
Ken, I am going to pursue RoyalMoulding later this week. I t sounds like Tuf Board HD used to carry. Tuf Board worked well for me at grade level but HD no longer has it. Too many complaints from the Construction trade.
Bill
Lowes carries it as Trimplank in the molding section. They used to carry the 1x3’s but I haven’t seen them lately. The 1x6 size comes with a wood grain on one side and they also carry a plain one. I use the plain one and rip it in half.
They also carry the TuffBoard, but it comes in light brownish color. I originally went with the TP because it came in the 1x3" size and I just stuck with that brand.
Steve thanks for the caveat. I did let grade level influence my judgment. Two foot on center helped. So I’ll include redwood in my reconnaissance in HD and Lowes tomorrow.
Ken thanks, more reconnaissance, sigh!
Bill
Hi Bill,
Reading about this I just went out and checked and took a couple of pictures.
What I used was the “Trimwood” brand composite trim material produced by Collins Pine (Chester, Lake Almanor) It is a 3/4 by 3 1/2 piece smooth on one side and wood grain on the other and comes pre-primed. I bought it at Lowe’s in 16 foot lengths and painted it before assembly then gave it a second coat after assembly.
Link to the product here.
http://www.collinsco.com/TruWood-collection/reversible-trim/
As I said the legs are 2x4 PT and are on 42-44 inch centers and every other one is set in concrete. The radius is 10-12 feet, the stuff will radius down to about 6-7 feet but doesn’t really like it. The ladder is 7 inches between the trims and the 2x4 blocking is on approx. 12 inch centers.
The blocking is placed vertical at the legs and flat between them. The legs that rest on concrete bricks are shoulder notched under the vertical block and the concreted ones are just side screwed.
As you can see the track is just floating and held in place by lathe screws and fender washers between the ties.
I assume where your going with this is around the back of the shop and up the side of the access driveway??
Later
Rick
Thanks for the pix Rick, you may recall I have a return loop alongside of the shop. So I dropped a switch in the loop with the idea of continuing around the shop and down the access driveway. Interestingly the Trimwood you mentioned is what the landscaper used for that driveway separating gravel from plantings. I did not see any in my last visit to HD/Lowes. Gonna have to expand my search to Oroville. I am in those stores so often customers think I work there. I like your way of allowing expansion with a fender washer.
Bill
I used the treated 5/4 decking. Ripped in half and mounted vertical on schedule 60 pvc conduit. Then I used the same decking, to top it off. It’s strong. I weigh 270+ and I can sit on it. And it is in expensive to build. Soon I’ll stain it then I want to add a trim/lip piece around the edge so I can ballast it. It’s been out in Northeast Ohio weather for two years and seems to be doing fine.
Terry