£3095.00.
That’s $4075.00.
I told the UK supplier to forget it.
Why, that’s over $28K in dog dollars!
tac, stunned
That’s a lot of schmakos!
I have noticed the UK prices are way expensive. Even Bachmann stuff is.
It is listed for US$3,150 on Accucraft’s eStore which would equal £1,922 plus shipping plus tax.
Buying Accucraft UK models direct from UK works for me in Australia because the UK 20% tax is taken off for OS sales but my Government gets 10% tax plus fee on imports over $1,000 and there is shipping as well.
Lately I have been buying off my local dealer. He has sharpened up the pencil to some degree.
As for the Heisler, I am sticking with my plastic Bachmann sparky. I have maxed out lately with 4 Accucraft locomotives on order.
Andrew
Question—Does that difference in price between the UK and the US have to do with VAT?
Tom Myers said:
Question—Does that difference in price between the UK and the US have to do with VAT?
Not that much!! TOY trains, as the Customs in the UK describe them are imported free of customs duty. They do have a 20% Value Added Tax on them however as do everything in the UK except childrens clothes, books and food (except there is a difference in some things. For instance plain cookies…ok. Chocolate cookies (or biscuits) as we call them have VAT added).
Chocolate is considered added value…
Let’s just say…in the UK 99$ of sale goods attract 20% VAT!
Before the recession it was 17.5%
No doubt hell will freeze over before the VAT reverts back to 17.5%
It seems Accucraft UK are about 20% more expensive than what an individual could get things from the USA. If the cost price plus shipping is less, there is also less VAT to pay.
In Australia the reason they don’t charge GST (Goods and services tax) under $1,000 is because the administrative cost of calculating the tax is not cost effective. I’m glad my government are that inefficient! Every now and again one ‘flies under the radar’ too. Can save several hundred dollars tax on a live steamer. I’m not sure how they miss them. Usually small boxed European locos.
They sting people in the UK 20% for importation of silver too. We pay no tax on PM bullion here in Australia.
Andrew
Ross Mansell said:
Tom Myers said:
Question—Does that difference in price between the UK and the US have to do with VAT?
Not that much!! TOY trains, as the Customs in the UK describe them are imported free of customs duty. They do have a 20% Value Added Tax on them however as do everything in the UK except childrens clothes, books and food (except there is a difference in some things. For instance plain cookies…ok. Chocolate cookies (or biscuits) as we call them have VAT added).
Chocolate is considered added value…Let’s just say…in the UK 99$ of sale goods attract 20% VAT!
Before the recession it was 17.5%No doubt hell will freeze over before the VAT reverts back to 17.5%
Ross, I think you sort-of contradict yourself there. Yes, they have 20% VAT added even if they are imported duty-free, which is what Tom asked!
If you crunch the numbers, the UK Accucraft dealer seems to be 20% dearer and there is 20% VAT on top of that. That is for US sourced stock.
If importing from the USA yourself I suspect they pay 20% VAT on the cost of shipping them there as well.
Andrew
'kay. I think I’ve posted this before, so if it is all vieux chapeau, please accept my apoliments.
Let us say that an item costs, for example, $2000 [NOT the Heisler, note, just AN item].
It needs insurance - say $50.
It needs shipping - say $150
It arrives in UK.
It is assessed for VAT by adding up the total of all those costs - $2300.
At 20%.
That makes $2660.00.
I have ignored the Customs Duty needed to be paid, since the way it is calculated is completely unknown to me.
Plus $20 ‘handling charge’
Total - $2680.00 - EXCLUDING the amount of customs duty charged.
Still doesn’t explain the horrendous difference between the UK price of the Heisler and expected US price, though…
We generally expect to pay the same number of pounds as dollars…
tac
Ottawa Valley GRS
Tac, I was under the impression that the 10% customs duty is not applied to toy trains. Just the 20% VAT. OR so my customers have told me on orders I ship to the UK. I will find out as I just shipped the very last Masonbogie to the UK to a customer.
Good plan, Jason - last train item I got me from the USA I got hammered, and it cost me the same as if I’d bought it here…
It seems to be influenced by a combination of attitude and imagination here…
Best
tac
Ottawa Valley GRS
Yeah Tac, that’s pretty much as I thought it was except you made a little mistake in your sums but as it usually goes we tend to get stung an extra $100 we don’t anticipate one way or another anyway.
A big shocker is when the box size exceeds the limits of our chosen economical shipping company. Then the corporates lay the boots in big time. Americans think way big when it comes to cardboard box size. Mainly due to the size of models. European and UK boxes tend to be much smaller, kind of like their houses.
Accucraft need to keep an eye on their packaging design/box size. A Pickering coach box is a third bigger just for the extra little wheels to be displayed below the coach. Only one coach can be sent at a time via USPS. Sometimes all our train money goes to the shipping companies because of big packaging - Not smart!
Often I get small Accucraft UK rolling stock boxes sent just wrapped in brown paper to keep costs down. Europe however is cheap via DHL. A whole train can be sent for almost the same amount as one long coach. Go figure.
Andrew
Tac, I appreciate your concerns but we operate a distributorship in the UK, ie; we support a dealer network which involves additional on costs and margins missing from your calculations. I admit that the UK RRP of the Heisler is, by comparison to previous Shays and Climaxes, somewhat higher but that is mainly because the latter represented amazing value for money and were produced some time ago. The Heisler is $500 more than the 29T Shay which is considerably more than earlier Shays…
We have to add the cost of air freight from San Francisco (whence we ship every 4 -6 weeks), UK delivery, our own warehousing costs, UK delivery to our dealers, our dealers’ margin and the on costs of providing full warranty support in the UK. We can’t do it for love alone! 
Graham (Accucraft UK)
tac Foley said:
£3095.00.
That’s $4075.00.
I told the UK supplier to forget it.
Why, that’s over $28K in dog dollars!
tac, stunned
Tac, that doesn’t seem out of line. The US price is $3175. After you add shipping and 20% vat that’s what you get isn’t it?
Customs duty on" toy train"s as they are described, is NOT CHARGED by UK customs. VAT is.
Think I will pass on the Heisler however…
Why do you keep going on about custom duty? No one has claimed it as an extra cost.
It is the 20% VAT that is the killer.
Andrew
ANDREW: Try reading Tacs post (8th Feb)…lines 9 & 11…
Ross, He only mentioned it once and it did not come into his equation of the high cost of Accucraft in England but yourself and others have mentioned there being no Import Duty several times now as if it has some major relevance to the discussion. Why repeat yourself?
Andrew
tac Foley said:
We generally expect to pay the same number of pounds as dollars…
tac
Ottawa Valley GRS
Many moons ago when I worked in the software industry that is exactly what our UK dealers did - took the USA list price in Dollars and changed the sign to Pounds. I questioned them on why they needed 100% more margin than our US dealers and I was told that their overhead and income taxes were much higher than US. OK; maybe, but 100% more???
Jon,
There were and still are UK dealers that charge more than $ for £ prices. This has been true of Aristo-Craft products. Generally speaking, many of them still have Aristo stock as a result. I have not seen any blowout prices over here for Aristo since the end of closure by Aristo at the end of last year. Had there been I may have purchased some of it.
One thing you all need to remember about retail pricing in the USA and the UK, Australia too for that matter, is that the USA prices listed do not include tax. Tax is added at the point of sale.
The UK and OZ prices by law must include VAT (GST in OZ) in the displayed price. With a tax of 20% it is easy to see why the UK retail prices can easily become inflated. That way the Guvmint can try and hide the impost they charge.
The USA has a much more sensible way of doing it, in my opinion of course.