Large Scale Central

AccuCraft UK Announce Heisler UK price.

Electronics Live Steam
#21

Graham Langer said:

Tac, I appreciate your concerns but we operate a distributorship in the UK, ie; we support a dealer network which involves additional on costs and margins missing from your calculations. I admit that the UK RRP of the Heisler is, by comparison to previous Shays and Climaxes, somewhat higher but that is mainly because the latter represented amazing value for money and were produced some time ago. The Heisler is $500 more than the 29T Shay which is considerably more than earlier Shays…

We have to add the cost of air freight from San Francisco (whence we ship every 4 -6 weeks), UK delivery, our own warehousing costs, UK delivery to our dealers, our dealers’ margin and the on costs of providing full warranty support in the UK. We can’t do it for love alone! :slight_smile:

Graham (Accucraft UK)

Ah, thank you, Mr Langer, for that informative post. We’ll never see eye-to-eye about the costs here in UK, but I promise that I won’t bring the subject up when we meet up at Peterborough in a couple of weeks’ time.

Basically, however, taking into account all you note, the British buyer of not-British-sponsored AccuCraft models is paying twice for everything - once for the whole distributorship/warehousing deal etc on the West Coast, and all over again here in yUK. So why not ship direct from China, and miss out the ‘vacation’ in the the state to the south of Oregon?

However, you did not notice that MY posit did not involve buying the model from a UK dealership, but directly from a US dealer, who does not have all the added hassle of your distributorship/storage/shipping/handling add-ons. My Hudson, ordered the same day it was announced, came direct from Cliff in Union City, and even after paying all the taxes here in UK, it was still well over a thousand dollars cheaper than any place here. There was, I recall, only one dealer prepared to import the CPR Hudson at that time - a dealer in the Channel Islands, who still had to add VAT and shipping to his not very low price…

Maybe the answer lies in dumping the air-freight deal - I don’t know - but shipping stuff by ship is undoubtedly a whole lot cheaper. In fact, it’s probably cheaper for me to fly over to our sponsor on these pages and fetch it back myself. That way I can stock up on Eddie Bauer Ts as well.

tac

#22

I could only assume the Accucraft distributor in the USA is the Accucraft company themselves and has a dealer price for their products with an expected retail mark up. Accucraft in the UK are probably an entirely separate company who basically buy at much the the same dealer price plus shipping etc. The UK distributor then needs to add their profit and warranty costs etc. making the UK dealer price higher. The higher sales tax of 20% at the retail end in the UK is also higher than USA tax typically is so by the time everyone gets their cut it just fats out way too much in the UK. Also the Accucraft dealers in the USA are probably a little more competetive and work on a reduced retail mark up and possibly get a better than normal deal when buying large orders. It is all about money invested, turnover and return. Who’s money is tied up in the process. That’s how capitalism works. When those involved are nothing more than uncommitted box passers the price always jacks up.

Andrew

#23

Andrew, you are about right. As a distributor we get a slightly better rate than dealers but we are expected to service a dealer network in consequence. We are quasi-independent of Accucraft (US), acting as distributors for the US range in the UK and elsewhere but also using Accucraft to manufacture of our behalf. The two companies have an inter-twined relationship that has proved most beneficial to both parties over the past dozen or so years, one which has resulted in a much greater freedom of choice for garden scale modellers.

Graham.

#24

As the owner of north of $20,000 worth of AccuCraft locomotive models, plus a few thousand more of rolling stock, and all but one of my steamers having been bought here in UK, I’m aware of the way it all works, thanks.

I appreciate Mr Langer’s viewpoint, and welcome his explanation of the make-up of the costs involved in it all.

I’m awaiting a bunch of passenger cars to haul behind my CPR Hudson - THEY will be AccuCraft - and they will undoubtedly prove insufficiently long a consist when I finally get them on a track, so there will be few more coach cars.

So you can see that far from being a RPITA whinger, I’m actually supporting AccuCraft [UK] in a way that is readily understood - by buying their products.

However, I maintain the right to drip about prices - don’t most of us?

tac

#25

Tac, we appreciate your support… I suppose my only comment would be to draw people’s attention to the prices asked for by our competition and decide if we offer good value for money! Personally I still think that Accucraft (US) offers a lot of ‘bang for your buck’ across the range. At the end of the day customers will vote with their wallets and have freedom of choice - we’re not going to try to blackmail them into buying our stuff!

Graham

#26

Mr Langer - we both know that AccuCraft has a range of SCALE prototype-based narrow gauge models that is unsurpassed anywhere for variety - models with proper scale valve gear that is not made of bits of bent tin, and a complete lack of slot-headed screws that so detract from what would otherwise be a reasonable model - excepting that awful tin valvegear.

You really do have no competition in that regard - nobody EVER made a 1:20.3 live steam IoM loco of any kind, for instance. With ‘Polar Bear’ coming along, you are about to have made ALL of them!

The vast range of suitable rolling stock at astonishing prices is also unmatched anywhere - even a KIT for a Welshpool Pickering passenger coach costs far more than the AccuCraft model. I’ve seen these kits, made well, I admit, selling for over £300.00 each - almost double the price of the ready-to-run AccuCraft model. And you only need three to complete the correct train, too.

Failing the attempt to get the Heisler, I’ll probably ‘force’ myself to take a blue 14/85, no real hardship, to tell the truth, so we are still friends, one way or another.

tac
Ottawa Valley GRS

#27

It works the other way round too. I’m in Australia and when buying UK models, I usually get them from UK dealers and have no 20% VAT to pay, only 10% customs imports over $1,000. Coaches and small lococs no tax but the shipping is expensive for anything of size though. Therefore I pay perhaps the same as a local from UK dealers but get no tax advantage from the USA. Basically the less ‘partners’ I have in my train purchasing supply line, the cheaper it gets.
Hmm, maybe I should get that 3rd Pickering while I still can…

Andrew

#28

Hi Andrew.

Depending on what the item is, there IS an actual import duty on model stuff in OZ. It is usually waived. If Customs ever try and apply the nominal import duty here in OZ quote TC # 9503.10.00 to have the duty waived.

There is our VAT equivalent, the 10% GST on goods over A$1,000.
That “10% customs imports over $1,000” is not actually a Customs charge. It is the general GST applied by the Taxation Dept and collected for them by Customs.

#29

Tony, true it is our 10% GST tax and just handled by customs. Customs also sting us about $50 processing fee if over $1,000. It is all government revenue raising, just a different department of thieves. I have never paid duty on importing model trains. There is a classification specifically for them. ‘Toy Trains’ I think it is defined and as far as I have experienced there is zero duty.
I think of my Accucraft museum models as a lot more than the usual ‘toy train’ but that is all they are just expensive ‘toy trains’ so suits me fine.
I don’t like giving the government my train money…

Andrew

#30

No doubt about it though. 20% VAT is a kick in the guts for those in the UK.
They even do it on silver bullion import. ‘Sterling idea gov, let’s rip off the commoners’.

Andrew

#31

Actually there is, or was, duty on some model trains. H0 scale Australian prototype. Basically taxing brass models.

Many years ago when I was doing a lot of Large Scale importing a few somewhat over zealous Customs officers at the then new Tullamarine Customs office tried it on whereas the officers at the old South Melbourne Customs office never did. It was about then the GATT took place and the TC #'s were issued. To the best of my knowledge they still apply Worldwide.

In the 90’s and 00’s when I traveled a lot to the USA I often took stock with me and always declared it upon arrival in the USA. I quoted TC # 9503.10.00, they looked it up, said OK and said welcome to the USA.

#32

‘In this life, only two things are certain - death and taxes’.

I didn’t say it, but it applies.

tac

#33

Garratt Steam said:

It works the other way round too. I’m in Australia and when buying UK models, I usually get them from UK dealers and have no 20% VAT to pay, only 10% customs imports over $1,000. Coaches and small lococs no tax but the shipping is expensive for anything of size though. Therefore I pay perhaps the same as a local from UK dealers but get no tax advantage from the USA. Basically the less ‘partners’ I have in my train purchasing supply line, the cheaper it gets.
Hmm, maybe I should get that 3rd Pickering while I still can…

Andrew

Do it. You KNOW you need the full set of three - two brake composite and a third class.

tac
Ottawa Valley GRS

#34

Tony last time I had an LGB/Aster in customs and all they wanted to know if it had any hazard materials on my imported ‘toy’ I just told them they were typically painted in lead free acrylic. No problems, they were happy to put something down on the form they had I guess. I don’t know what it was painted with but I didn’t mention that it may had lead in it for traction weight. No kiddies are going to play with it anyway.
Yes Sir, No Sir, Three bags full of %it Sir. Gatekeepers… Tell em what they need to hear Pffft.

Andrew

#35

Tac, just as well I didn’t get a 3rd Pickering coach.
Silly me would have got another saloon…
I didn’t notice they had a brake at each end of the consist.
Makes sense though, to run the other way.
I did see a video of a train with just two coaches once.
Inquiries have been made…

Andrew