Large Scale Central

About trains or not exactly. Do I post or not?

General Discussion
#1

“Mom” says we have to play nice and observe the rules, which in this case means that we should save this forum for train related stuff. That’s probably sound advice since I’ve seen certain members go a little ape when the discusssion gets a little off topic. Anticipating this I’ll do the democratic thing and kind of tease the subject and let y’all decide if we want to chew up Bob’s web space to chat about it.

The backstory: On another forum, which shall remain nameless, a poster asked about mag-lev trains, citing an exhibit of same in Japan. Or maybe China. Anyway, in my response I brought up self-driving cars, which are the topic du jour. Nissan bragged they’l have one in just a few years and Mercedes tried to trump them by telling the folks at the Frankfurt Auto Show that their car drove itself 62 miles on city and country roads. There’s even a video.

I have strong opinions about this, having spent 50 years in the car magazine business, but if you guys say, “N/T,” or just yawn, the subject is off the table.

#2

I say go for it. But then I am a car nut also. BTW I think that instead of spending billions on self driving cars so the blind can drive instead they should just take seeing eye dogs and teach them to drive. Be a lot cheaper and they can still be seeing eye dogs.

#3

Joe,

I think it’s an interesting subject and it certainly could apply to trains … some day. I recently read that there is some research being done to automate certain trucks to be driverless. I suppose that with GPS and enough onboard sensors it could be easily done. I would imagine that a driverless train should be a piece of cake. I also read that there has already been a driverless taxi operated in London. Airliners are currently equipped with pilotless landing equipment for foul weather conditions, so sure, why not maglev trains and private automobiles as well.

This is where it might get a little OT, but with every operatorless car, taxi, truck, plane and train, there goes yet another good paying job lost to automation. As computers and robotics do more and more of our work it’s an interesting exercise to project into the future to try to imagine what it’s going to be like when a handful of highly trained people design and maintain legions of robots that will do most of the work that most of us do today to make a living.

Walt

#4

[b]Ape reply:

Well I’m posting a reply here after reading yours to tell you that I’m not going to read this. I imagine there are a couple hundred others on here who after reading your post will post to tell you they’re not reading this either. Everybody here sure enjoys posting to other people’s posts saying that after reading it they’re not going to read it.

So…unless you’re prepared to answer two hundred comments from people not reading…I wouldn’t post it.

:wink:

Now, what was it about those self controlled cars?[/b]

#5

…and then some jerk from NH came and stole the thread and turned it into a topic about automated model cars running on outdoor layouts!

J/k Joe, I think its a good topic to bring up, but I can’t get past the safety/liability issues. How can we be upset at MMA for running 1 man crews and R/C locomotives at the same time?

#6

Rockwall Canyon Jeff said:

…and then some jerk from NH came and stole the thread and turned it into a topic about automated model cars running on outdoor layouts!

J/k Joe, I think its a good topic to bring up, but I can’t get past the safety/liability issues. How can we be upset at MMA for running 1 man crews and R/C locomotives at the same time?

What’s the liability issue with Mag-Lev trains? As for automated trains, there are plenty of examples where the “driver” only rides along for security reasons.

BTW the issue with MM&A and the one man crew is less about the crew and a lot more about the attitude of management regarding safety, safety training and related items.

#7

I’m going to bed and dream of Jeanny with the lovely blue eyes…

#8

…should I report on my dreams later on this thread ?

#9

Fred Mills said:

…should I report on my dreams later on this thread ?

Absolutely, but only the parts that relate to automated trains.

#10

walter sarapa said:

Fred Mills said:

…should I report on my dreams later on this thread ?

Absolutely, but only the parts that relate to automated trains.

Or if you levitate in your dreams, even without the magnetic force field.

:stuck_out_tongue: :stuck_out_tongue:

#11

OK, so that’s a “no.” Mostly. Maybe, Kinda. I would take the thread down (unravel it?) but I don’t think you can, completely.

#12

Joe Rusz said:

OK, so that’s a “no.” Mostly. Maybe, Kinda. I would take the thread down (unravel it?) but I don’t think you can, completely.

That’s not the way I counted the responses, looks like mostly “go for it”, so, go for it.

#13

Well (sniff, sniff) OK. A few weeks ago I had a discusssion with my ex New Yawk neighbor about self-drive cars, which is the latest rage. Sergei Brin says Google will have one of these within five years, Nissan and everyone else say maybe a dozen years or so. At the Frankfurt Auto Show Mercedes showed a car that drove itself from Mannhein to Pforzheim, a distance of 62 miles, through the city, around buses and pedestrians and such, and into the countryside, before hading to the other city. Pretty impressive, but not what my neighbor expects, which is a car into which you can plug in a destination (Da Bronx) and just sit back for a coupla days while it whisks you across the country. Sure, these cars can do a lot, but the day when we’re all sittin’ around inside the cabin watchin’ TV while we’re driven, door-to-door to our destination, are ways out there, if at all. Meanwhile, I think we should start buying up all the cars without electronic controls so that if that day comes, we can drive the way we want to. Meanwhile, here’s the link–

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=CKqJccK_EkM

#14

I think the most practical application for automatic control in cars is for cross country trips. You’d drive your car manually to an on ramp for an automated freeway, dial in an off ramp number on the car’s control panel like dialing a phone number and a central computer would take over delivering your car via the most opportune route to the dialed off ramp.

Power could best be delivered by the freeway itself as electricity so as to avoid anyone running out of fuel during the trip. Electricity could be delivered by a strip in the pavement through a small conductive wheel beneath the vehicle or alternately through induction. A meter inside the car would read its serial number and bill the owner accordingly for power used during the trip.

Upon being deposited at the appropriate off ramp the automatic feature would disengage, an alarm would sound (to wake you up) and you would drive onto city streets manually.

Every part of the car would have to be in good condition and electronically monitored down to the tire pressure and the car’s computer would be queried by sensors in the on ramp to assure its safety. Any car failing the test would be pushed off the ramp by the computer and not allowed to enter until repaired. This would assure reasonablr safety for vehicles traveling several hundred mph often only yards apart.

Kind of neat but doesn’t bode well for rail travel. Model freewaying the next hobby? :wink:

#15

Steel wheels on steel rail is still the most fuel efficient way to move cargo. Vastly more efficient than rubber tires on concrete roads. I don’t think that railroads have anything to fear for quite a while.

#16

Richard, you’re “on the beam.” BTW, does anyone even know what that means and why? Anyway, my neighbor believes that all cars will just drive themselves anywhere at our whim, which simply ain’t gonna happen. Like you, I think the most practical–and most easily achieved application is for cross-country drives. I also agree that cars would have to be in tip-top condition, which is where this fantasy begins to fall apart. I don’t know what things are like in beautiful downtown Port Orford, but in LA and its environs, there are cars that couldn’t pass the simplest safety inspection. Which brings to mind an office joke of a few years ago when one of the editors yelled, “Hey, is s*** box one word or two?” We’re still LOL.

#17

I suspect that “On the beam” comes from the early days of aviation, when a pilot would literally fly a radio beacon or “beam” to his next check point. Being “On the beam” was when the signal was the strongest.

#18

I can’t seem to find it now, but there is a group proposing a pneumatic tube / magnetic propulsion loop system that would be like both cars and trains. Like cars in that you ride in a pod that is automatically switched to it’s destination. Like trains in that your pod rides in a tube “track” to your destination. If I can find the reference I’ll post it here. The technology reads more like data packet switching then transportation.

#19

Steve Featherkile said:

I suspect that “On the beam” comes from the early days of aviation, when a pilot would literally fly a radio beacon or “beam” to his next check point. Being “On the beam” was when the signal was the strongest.

Actually “on the beam” was when you heard a solid sound. Drift to one side and you heard a dot dash. The other side gave you a dash dot. This told you which side of the beam you were on. As you turned into the beam the two sounds came together to form a solid humming.

If the sound became louder you were heading towards the source while a gradual lessening meant you were moving away. These were called “Radio Range Beacons” and were prominent on all aeronautical charts along with their frequencies and call signals.

You also could determine position with omnirange signals. The only problem with these is that you’d have to correct for wind drift to avoid a spiral route to the source which used more fuel than a direct route. You straightened your route by crabbing into the wind.

Of course if all else failed there was the highly technical Seat of Your Pants method. :wink:

#20

Jon Radder said:

I can’t seem to find it now, but there is a group proposing a pneumatic tube / magnetic propulsion loop system that would be like both cars and trains. Like cars in that you ride in a pod that is automatically switched to it’s destination. Like trains in that your pod rides in a tube “track” to your destination. If I can find the reference I’ll post it here. The technology reads more like data packet switching then transportation.

I’ve seen that somewhere too. Should be practical although I’d think expensive to construct.

Virtually every department store used this type of propulsion to send billing information and receive back receipts from a central office in the store. Worked quite well and reliably until the computer age made it obsolete.