Steve Featherkile said:Sheesh Steve,Warren Mumpower said:Gee, Warren, don't beat around the bush, tell us how you really feel.
Honest politicians......??
He wasn’t beating around the Bush - could that one do with some beating??? - he just avoided the thorny shrubbery of most politicians. Too easy to get tangled it that!
Hmmmmm.
I think that perhaps I will stay away from this part of the dis-cuss-ion.
:lol:
Warren Mumpower said:
Steve Featherkile said:
Warren Mumpower said:
Honest politicians…??
. . .
Gee, Warren, don’t beat around the bush, tell us how you really feel.
They might lock me up if I say something like I think GWB should have been hanging from the rope next to Saddam…!!
1 year 4 months 30 days 16 hours 18 minutes 36 seconds
Steve Featherkile said:
TonyWalsham said:
Bob Burton said:
Tony, Your problem with the Bush Admin is that you do not realize he is “sly like fox”… Tell them that you agree with them & they will leave you alone, then go do what you want…Bob. I didn’t say I have a problem with the Bush administration regarding the above matter. They made the statement that they acknowledge Global warming is reality and it was caused by mankind. Not me. It is not my place to get involved in a discussion about domestic USA politics. Steve has chosen not to answer my question so there it stays.
Oh, but I did, Tony. You are just not able to get past the first line. RTFA!
Now which line would that be Steve? This one?
Steve Featherkile said:
Well, I will finally admit that global warming is here.
Or this one?
Steve Featherkile said:
Tony, you found me out!
Or this one?
Steve Featherkile said:
My main point is that “Global Warming” is not caused by man, or anything that man does. To say that is extremely arrogant.
Bearing in mind that is exactly what the Bush administration is saying. Or this one?
Steve Featherkile said:
Tony, don’t put words in my mouth. I don’t think I’ve ever said that the earth is not warming, I just do not think that we are in any way capable of contributing significantly to it.
Again you are at odds with the Bush administration. So, I take it you agree we can interpret your first line comments as meaning, that along with the Bush administration, you DO believe that Global warming is taking place? However you DO NOT agree with the Bush administration that mankind has and is causing Global warming. ???
Steve Featherkile said:I have also stated that Planet Earth is coming out of an Ice Age, and that things tend to get a bit warmer when that happens. I have also stated that since the 1850's or so, Terra has been coming out of a "mini-Ice Age," that started in the early 1300's and set back the world's economy considerably. Terra was 10 - 15 degrees F cooler then. Things tend to get a bit warmer when that happens, also. I have also agreed that there has been one whole degree Celsius of "Global Warming" in the last 150 years, with most of it occurring in the first 90 of those 150 years. A whole degree!
For the record, I think that James whatever his name is, is wrong about global warming, and has misled his boss. .
Now, if you had taken the time to really read what I have written, instead of going off half cocked, you would not have had ask all those damn fool questions about what my position really was.
Tony, if you are going to be credible in a discussion, you have to read and understand your oppositions position.
Instead of this idle chatter about whether he said or didn’t…could one of you guys , or both of you, who seem to know so much about two “Houses”; get off your arses and come over here, and while I ply you with good Whisky; give me a hand building ONE engine house, that will protect four of my locomotives from global warming…please
This way the energies that you are wasting and contributing to global warming or something; will be put to great use.
One of you or both; can, after the house is built, take photos of it and claim responsibility…
Fred,
Remember the cartoon with the Québecois hitting his forehead and saying “Tabe…” when he looks at his finished canoe? ) 
Easy on those spirits, unless the spirits should hit them.
Steve Featherkile said:Steve Featherkile said:I have also stated that Planet Earth is coming out of an Ice Age, and that things tend to get a bit warmer when that happens. I have also stated that since the 1850's or so, Terra has been coming out of a "mini-Ice Age," that started in the early 1300's and set back the world's economy considerably. Terra was 10 - 15 degrees F cooler then. Things tend to get a bit warmer when that happens, also. I have also agreed that there has been one whole degree Celsius of "Global Warming" in the last 150 years, with most of it occurring in the first 90 of those 150 years. A whole degree!
For the record, I think that James whatever his name is, is wrong about global warming, and has misled his boss. .Now, if you had taken the time to really read what I have written, instead of going off half cocked, you would not have had ask all those damn fool questions about what my position really was.
Tony, if you are going to be credible in a discussion, you have to read and understand your oppositions position.
I have already acknowledged you accept Global warming is taking place. However, based on your comments above, that may be still somewhat doubtful.
The very first time you agreed Global warming is a fact:
Steve Featherkile said:Just two lines later you deny it.
Yessir, global warming is upon us.
Steve Featherkile said:Even though that looks like an each way bet, I am still prepared to believe you really do believe you do accept Global warming as fact.
Global warming, my a$$!
So it seems the sticking point for you is what is causing it.
You can waffle, obfuscate and throw barbs as much as you like, you still haven’t answered the question(s).
Compared to the Bush administration, you don’t have a clear cut position on the causes of Global warming.
There is no point in having any debate with you as to what to do about Global warming until you can accept what the problem is in the first place.
I repeat, ad nauseum if necessary.
Do you agree with the stated Bush administration position as to the causes of Global warming?
C’mon now. I know you want to have a debate about what to do, so all will it take to start that debate is a simple and straightforward answer from you.
That can’t be too hard can it? 
Yea, Steve, I think the Martians, Venusians and Saturnians deserve an answer too. Are we causing their worlds to heat up?
Ken Brunt said:
Yea, Steve, I think the Martians, Venusians and Saturnians deserve an answer too. Are we causing their worlds to heat up?
Ken, they can’t even spell SUV!
Hey, I just watched a show on the History Channel that stated the New Orleans, Mississippi delta area is sinking about 2 feet every 100 years or so.
Why bother re-building Nawlins?
The next hurry cane will just wash it away again.
I say move it to higher ground and turn the delta back into the salt marsh it once was.
What the heck does this hafta do with global warming?
Why nothing.
Just changin the subject so Tony and Steve could argue about something else.
TOG
Hey, Tony, got any ideas for the next go around?
What else are you and I passionate about? Half way through, we could change sides and confuse everyone, not that that would be hard to do.
:lol:
Wow What exciting talk about fuel guzzling diesels and coal burning fossil fuel eaters guys? Anyone know if there are any research projects on hydrogen powered trains?
mark Dashnaw said:
Wow What exciting talk about fuel guzzling diesels and coal burning fossil fuel eaters guys? Anyone know if there are any research projects on hydrogen powered trains?
We almost once went Nuclear…or is that Nu-cue-lar
nuclear trains, now theres a media circus for environmental exterists!!! Can’t suggest that idea in todays world!
Vic, I grew up in the shadow of Hanford Nuclear Works, and it is pronounced “nuck-u-lere” hereabouts.
mark Dashnaw said:Mark, it seems JR East has them in service. Best wishes from Tokyo, Zubi http://www.hydrogencarsnow.com/blog2/index.php/hydrogen-vehicles/jr-east-demonstrates-worlds-first-commuter-hydrogen-train/
... Anyone know if there are any research projects on hydrogen powered trains?
I’ve actually read most of this thread (skimmed over some of the quotes). At the risk of sounding deranged, I found most of it interesting. I hope my two cents’ worth doesn’t contribute to global warming - i.e., I hope it generates more light than heat.
Wasn’t it Homer Simpson who said, “Facts are useless! You could use facts to prove anything!” That’s my feeling on the global warming argument. The old adage about lies, damn lies and statistics applies to both sides, especially when the argument gets emotional.
A previous poster commented that it’s arrogant to assume human beings are responsible for climate change. That comment resonated with me. The proposition that we can seriously affect a planet, if applied as a generalisation, strikes me as dubious if not untenable.
Nevertheless, there is at least one specific issue where human beings are having a substantial impact on the environment, and that is the emission of jet exhaust at high altitudes. The relationship between these emissions and UV radiation is proven, and there is current research focused on developing jet fuels that address this specific problem.
It’s my opinion that anyone who falls for the pitch some airlines are making for passengers to pay a voluntary “green” surcharge on top of their already exorbitant, over-taxed air fares is silly. This is not an issue that is going to be resolved by making charitable donations to publicly-listed companies, nor should it be.
There seems to be general agreement that President Bush has accepted global warming is a serious issue. Why? I am concerned that advocates of nuclear power may have more to do with it than meets the eye. In 2004, Australia completed its first north-south rail link. We are told its main purpose will be the transportation of freight. What freight - nuclear waste from around the world? I have seen no evidence to suggest this railroad will ever generate enough local traffic to pay for the capital costs incurred, let alone the recurrent expenses.
I have no evidence that President Bush’s more sympathetic approach to environmental issues involves the nuclear power industry, nor any evidence that the new north-south railway is intended to transport nuclear waste. I welcome comment on both issues from those of you more enlightened than I am.
Growing up in NYC, only fifty miles or so from the Indian Point reactor, I don’t have huge concerns about nuclear power. I can remember doing shelter drills in elementary school, and sneaking into a bomb shelter to marvel at the 44-gal drums of water and nick some of the biscuits that were stored there in the event of Armageddon. Living at the bulls-eye of a nuclear target for so long may have made me more laid back about nuclear than I should be, but that’s the way it is. I am certainly not emotional about it, one way or the other.
However, I am yet to be convinced about the economics of nuclear power. I think it’s a very expensive way to go. We are doing some interesting work here in Western Australia on clean coal and wind power (we have lots of both). Perth already has a desalination plant, with another, much larger facility on the way. I like the way our state government is extending Perth’s commuter rail network in an effort to get cars off the roads.
An economically pragmatic rationale that addresses specific environmental issues, one which includes or excludes specific technologies based solely on merit, strikes me as the appropriate way to deal with whatever environmental problems we face in the early 21st century.
