i don’t see, why not.
for these oldfashioned lightbulbs it should be the same, if they are fed with AC or DC.
(and, yes, i suppose, the lionell power should be AC. the only three rail system i know is the H0 Marklin AC)
ps: thanks, you made me remember, that in one of the boxes there must be two Marklin transformers
David Maynard said:…
…but all too often the concepts aren’t explained simple enough, for folks who aren’t familiar with the subject to grasp.
Oh my freaking God…My oldest son was an electrical engineer in the Navy and he’s finishing his studies so he can go to work for Lockheed, not to mention my kids’s mom’s sister-in-law and brother are electrical engineers and they’ve all tried explaining wiring to me countless times, but I never understood a word they were saying!
No wonder. I was missing what we call in my family a “critical piece of information.” With Korm’s simple diagram, Maynard’s explanation, and Devon’s brilliant water concept, I finally woke up this morning and it dawned on me what the elemental concept was I’ve been missing all along: electricity has to MOVE, it FLOWS, it travels, it goes from one place to another. That’s why they call it an electrical current, like one of our rivers. Now that I know that, I get why nobody ever mentioned it before…it’s so elementally basic it never crossed their minds.
If we ever meet up some day, I owe you all a beer!
.
A few things. Ground and neutral are not the same, and not all circuits have a path to earth ground. Like a flashlight or cell phone. But the electrons that flow into a component, also need to flow out and back to the source, so that is why we have 2 wires.
A short circuit is when the path for electricity leads from the source, back to the source without passing through the load. What we want is a closed circuit, not a short circuit.
Dimmers should only be used on lights, or light strings, designed for 120 VAC. Use a transformer for low voltage lights and strings.
Light bulbs do not care if they are supplied with alternating current or direct current, although the voltages may vary slightly. LEDs do care, and proper polarity needs to be observed.
A Lionel transformer supplies AC (alternating current) to the rails, and also to the accessory terminals (if any).
John, I posted before I got to page 2. I understand. I used to tutor several of my classmates because they didn’t grasp what the instructor was saying during class, but since I explained things a bit different they got it. Sometimes we just need things explained from a different viewpoint, using slightly different verbiage, to get it. We all understand things in our own way. I am glad that the light bulb went on, so to speak (bad pun), and that you are understanding it now.
just for the fun of it: http://kormsen.info/buildings/
(scroll down a little, till you see the first pic with cables in it.)
that shows, what can be done with christmas chains.
This thread got off track with light wiring, but I learned ALOT. Thanks to all. Apologies to John, your Yankee girl structure is stellar! A great reproduction to the real thing. Keep 'em coming!
David,
I am not arguing but trying to understand. Speaking only of AC as it applies to my house. I have two wires coming from the transformer on the pole. Well three actually if count the support wire. Both wires that enter my panel feed the “hot” sides of my panel. One to each side of the panel too which the breakers are attached. The black hot wires all attach to the breakers. Now on the return trip all of the white wires are attached to the neutral buss bars which then have the big copper ground wires attached to them and that goes to a couple of rods pounded into the ground. Now in addition all the bare copper ground wires in the coming into the panel are also all attached to the neutral buss bars. When I did my addition the new panel was inspected by and electrical inspector and he had no problem with the neutrals and grounds attached to the same buss bars. And nothing from the neutral or grounds returns to the pole.
So with out being argumentative and with the utmost respect I ask could you explain to me how a neutral and a ground in an AC circuit are different and what is the point of the ground?
Devon. I said that not all circuits connect to earth ground. Actually house wiring should have a neutral wire, as well as an earth ground. The reason for an earth ground is to protect the user. If something fails, the power is supposed to be shorted to ground so the user doesn’t light up. By specs, AC neutral should be no more then 5 volts higher then the ground terminal.
Now since I am not an electrician, I do not know all of the codes for house wiring. Someone else can probably give you more information.
Devon, i’m no electrician neither, but had to understand all that stuff for my job as insurance manager and my hobby as firefighter.
while the neutral is needed for electricity to function.(kind of “return-pipe” for the electrons to the powerplant), the “Ground” is a safety measure to evade people getting grilled by electricity.
-electicity “likes” the big mass of the earth (ground)
-electricity can travel through many metals and through wetness.
-the thicker the cable, the more electricity can pass.
so, let us say, we got a fridge… old, rusty, but still working.
the powerplant brings electricity through the black cable to its motor.
through the (white it is? in the us?) other cable the fridge motor sends back the “empties” to the powerplant. simple till here?
if you live on a ranch, very far from the powerplant, costs may decide, to save the 20 miles (or so) of white cable.
instead of it they connect the white cable, coming out of the house to the earth. - and stick another white cable into the earth near the powerplant.
result: the earth with its wetness (groundwater, aquifers etc) replaces half of the cables needed.
(if you don’t believe me, open the hood of your car. the “plus” of the battery is connected to many cables. but the “minus” is connected just to the car’s body. every electrich gimmick in your car has its own plus/live cable, but they all together got one common minus/neutral - the car body.)
back to our fridge. that good old thing has rusted long enough, that somewhere the black cable gets in contact with the fridges body. if that in itself is a problem, depends on the fridge’s feet. if they are from metal, they let electricity flow from the hot wire into the wet kitchenfloor.
1st problem: your bill gets up…
2nd problem: the fuses of your black wire could “blow”.
or your fridge got rubber buttons as feet. rubber does not let electricity flow. then nothing happens, untill…
you come in from the garden, wearing rubber boots, take out a beer. -your wife scolds you for the dirty floor.
your wife goes barefoot to get a beer too. - she gets grilled.
human bodies consist mainly of water and minerals - electricity loves that for a “cable”. then through the fridge-body and through the human body the electricity can flow into the ground.
that is, where the green cable - the “Ground” - comes in.
that you don’t loose the person, who maintains you in a civilized status, you connect the body of every fridge (and other electrical thing) directly to the earth. using thick cables, from the bodies of your fridges, heaters, etc into the earth.
(today normally with copper-rods down to groundwater level. but i have seen groundconnections through water wells or through steel-girders as well)
so, the white can go into the ground, and the green too.
but the green only “works”, if some elictricity is already at the wrong place.
Korm Kormsen said:
if you live on a ranch, very far from the powerplant, costs may decide, to save the 20 miles (or so) of white cable.
instead of it they connect the white cable, coming out of the house to the earth. - and stick another white cable into the earth near the powerplant.
result: the earth with its wetness (groundwater, aquifers etc) replaces half of the cables needed.
Oh my, this is getting frightening…I think I’m starting to understand some of this!
John Passaro said:
Korm Kormsen said:
if you live on a ranch, very far from the powerplant, costs may decide, to save the 20 miles (or so) of white cable.
instead of it they connect the white cable, coming out of the house to the earth. - and stick another white cable into the earth near the powerplant.
result: the earth with its wetness (groundwater, aquifers etc) replaces half of the cables needed.
Oh my, this is getting frightening…I think I’m starting to understand some of this!
Welcome to the Enlightenment!
oh, oh!
then stop reading! NOW!
ignorance is bliss.
That makes sense to me Korm. As where I live used to be rural it is understandable why the neutral and ground share the same buss bar and ground rod and that there is no neutral on the pole. I vaguely get it. Even though they are using the same “wire” (the earth) the neutral is completing the electrical circuit and the bare copper ground is taking a short to ground instead of through the person touching it. So different functions, same wire. I think I get it.
John Caughey said:
John Passaro said:
Korm Kormsen said:
if you live on a ranch, very far from the powerplant, costs may decide, to save the 20 miles (or so) of white cable.
instead of it they connect the white cable, coming out of the house to the earth. - and stick another white cable into the earth near the powerplant.
result: the earth with its wetness (groundwater, aquifers etc) replaces half of the cables needed.
Oh my, this is getting frightening…I think I’m starting to understand some of this!
Welcome to the Enlightenment!
Would that be parallel or serial Enlightenment?
John Passaro said:
John Caughey said:
John Passaro said:
Korm Kormsen said:
if you live on a ranch, very far from the powerplant, costs may decide, to save the 20 miles (or so) of white cable.
instead of it they connect the white cable, coming out of the house to the earth. - and stick another white cable into the earth near the powerplant.
result: the earth with its wetness (groundwater, aquifers etc) replaces half of the cables needed.
Oh my, this is getting frightening…I think I’m starting to understand some of this!
Welcome to the Enlightenment!
Would that be parallel or serial Enlightenment?
when you get grilled, that would be momentary enlightment…
True, it can be so fleeting!
Terms; that would be Series and Parallel, Serial is a different killer(http://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-wink.gif)
I knew someone would have the answer. Here in the civilized world (wink wink), we have the white wire (neutral) and green or bare wire (ground), and while they are both connected together somewhere, I know not where. Inside my house they are separate, and the white wires all go to the neutral buss in my fuse-box, and the green, or bare, wires are clamped to the fuse-box housing. Then a larger wire is also clamped to the fuse-box housing, and it goes outside to the ground rod, wherever that is.
I wink, because my house still has glass fuses, and its a 120 amp service. So my house is no where near being up to code.
Incidentally, here in the U.S., for AC house wiring, the black wire is hot, the white wire is neutral, and the green or bare wire is ground. As I said before, the voltage difference between the white wire and the ground wire has to be less then 5 volts per code. In hospital settings, I believe the code is less then 1 volt difference.
But on our model railroads, with 12-24 volts DC and 12-16 volts AC, we usually don’t have a ground, and we don’t need one. Neither wire has to be connected to ground in our applications. But like Korm said, we need two wires so the used electrons (or empties) can go back to the power source. Not that they are actually used, nor empty, but that is the analogy that Korm used, and it made me laugh. Energy (electricity) flows from an area of higher energy to an area of lower energy, and it needs a path to do that. So the electrons flow from the charged negative terminal of our power sources, to the less charged positive terminal of our source, through whatever load we wire them trough. Be it a motor, a light, a smoke unit, or a more complex circuit.
I’ve been working on getting the placement of the mining structures, the tunnel, making sure it all lines up with the track, the bridge that will go back in, and everything else. Whew! I’ve spent a lot of time building out the mountain the whole district sits on, using foam (the tan and the pink), priming (the grey to give the rocks a cool undertone), and various stages of coating and finish are shown.
None of the rocks are really finished yet. It’s getting there, but there’s a lot to do. The main thing is that I think it will all work together, just a matter of slugging it out and getting detail oriented.
Sooner or later I need to man-up and paint backdrops, but, oddly enough, that’s the part that makes me most nervous…I feel that if I can’t paint a good background it would be a pretty pathetic state of affairs. Too much pressure!~~~~~
The last picture shows the overall view and placement. Thanks for your feedback…all suggestions and comments about anything that doesn’t look right or seems not-believeable if that’s a word are most welcome. Thanks.
John,
Refresh my memory, this is out doors but under cover right? I just wonder due to your construction methods. It’s looking awesome but not so weather friendly.
If it’s not under cover then what are you using to prevent real weather form occurring.
