Large Scale Central

2008 - 10th consecutive year of no global warming

Kevin Morris said:
Ralph Berg said:
Just using Al's 650,000 year graph to illustrate the trends. The graph shows that the temperature rises before the Co2 does. Both rise between ice ages and fall during ice ages. Ralph
The graph wasn't intended to be that precise. It simply implies that there is a consistent relationship between atmospheric CO2 and temperature.

You’re right though, that there were previous hot times, as shown on the graph. But the problem now is that there are billions of people living in coastal areas and therefore very vulnerable to even a small change in sea level.


I don’t deny warming or that it will cause problems.
Regardless of whether the Co2 leads or trails temperatures, the pattern has repeated itself for 650,000 years.
To conclude that we are the cause, this time, is illogical to me.
There are plenty of real reasons to reduce pollutants. No need to manufacture new, more spectacular reasons.
Ralph

Kevin Morris said:
But the problem now is that there are billions of people living in coastal areas and therefore very vulnerable to even a small change in sea level.
And there, my friend is the rub. People build on the banks of that picturesque river, get flooded out, collect the insurance, build there AGAIN, get flooded out again, insurance balks, so they complain to the gubmint, who spends $millions$ to have the Corps of Engineers FIX the flooding problem (in that spot), so it floods someplace else...unless of course it might affect the habitat of the spotted striped crosseyed barking minnow....then it costs $billions$ and takes ten times as long...

At some point you gotta ask, wouldn’t it just be easier to buy them a house on a HILL?

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TonyWalsham said:
I doubt there are too many insured properties on the banks of the rivers in Bangladesh for example. Or the islands in the indeian and pacific oceans.
Did anybody ever stop to think that just MAYBE people AREN'T supposed to live in places that flood frequently? There is/was a major city built BELOW SEA LEVEL in a SWAMP, in a place prone to HURRICANES (It may have been of strategic necessity in the 18th Century, but it really isn't anymore)... one came, 80% of the city flooded, and a bunch of people died. BUT the "problem" isn't that it was a dumb place to build a city, the "problem" is a broke federal gubmint isn't shovelling money down there fast enough for them to rebuild it fast enough to suit them... Makes sense, right?

At some point EVERYBODY has to take responsibility for their actions or inactions, NOT just evil imperialist Americans. Global Warming as it is being stuffed down our throats is a FRAUD, I’m not denying the “data”, I’m saying it has been deliberately twisted and misrepresented to push an AGENDA. I conserve electric, and gasoline, and tend not to buy one use plastic junk if I can find a lifetime warranted piece that will do the job, BECAUSE I don’t have money to throw away. Therefore, throwing $trillions$ at a problem that may or may not exist, for solutions that may or may not actually DO anything is anti-sensical to me.

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TonyWalsham said:
Perhaps as the biggest polluters on Earth you generous Conservatives will feel some guilt for your actions and open up your country to those displaced by your selfish actions. No? I guess not.
Generalizations and finger pointing serve no constructive purpose. You may very well contribute more to pollution than I. You drive a 75 LTD......MAYBE 10-12mpg. My daily driver is also a used vehicle........40mpg. Three of my five acres are wooded. My carbon off-sets sprout from the earth. Tony....Take a good look at the 650,000 year ice core charts. We are just in the midst of a cycle that has occurred many previous times in history. Ralph

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TonyWalsham said:
I respectfully disagree with your opinion and will continue to express mine, just like you are free to express yours. Time will tell who is right won't it?

In the meantime I might also suggest that the disbelievers of Global warming stop blaming the poor in this World for their own problems.


In other parts of the world…the poor live in coastal areas.
Here in the USA…the coastal areas are filled with the expensive homes of the rich.
Time will tell? I doubt it. The charts today tell me the Earth has been through this cycle many times.
You dismiss them now…apparently this will not change with time.
Have you even taken a good look at the ice core charts?
There is no evidence that humans were here in sufficient numbers to cause the previous periods in history of global warming…or the eight previous ice ages in 650,000 years.
As I said…pollution causes enough real problems, such as cancer, to give us all plenty of incentive to reduce pollution.
Ralph

TonyWalsham said:
Don't you just love the generosity of spirit the caring right displays for their fellow man who have been impoverished all their lives and have no say in how or where they live?

No? I guess not.
Perhaps as the biggest polluters on Earth you generous Conservatives will feel some guilt for your actions and open up your country to those displaced by your selfish actions.
No? I guess not.


Generosity starts at home. I got my SSA-1099 yesterday. I got $5,631 last year on Disability. (then take $457/month off the top for rent) I’m ALLOWED to work about 20/hours a week at minimum wage (if I can) before they take money away… I’m living like a KING!

You know, the left’s arguments would carry MORE WEIGHT if THEY would resist the urge to villify and slander people who just happen to disagree with them.

Tony,
This was taken from the George Bush story you just posted.

“It was his absolute conviction that if he believed something was right, then it must be right”

I think this applies to you…not to be insulting.
The temperatures from the ice core charts clearly show the Earth has been through this cycle many times.
Yes, there is global warming, just as there has been many times in the past.
Your insistence that we are the cause…ignores the evidence from the past.
When the temperatures peak, they will begin dropping until the Earth enters another ice age.
And neither event will be caused by humans. This is what the evidence from the past shows.
This is not a rich or poor issue.
Try as we may, reducing Co2 will not change the natural weather cycles the Earth has experienced for 650,000 years.
However, by reducing pollution we can contribute to many other positive changes and reverse some of the damage we have caused.
Ralph

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At this point in “GLOWBALL” warming; I don’t really care what you guys are doing, while here, I am with a temperature of -27C, out in my shop, with the old woodstove pumping out heat, while I’m working on a model railway project…

As I’ve always said, the cause isnt the big issue, it what are we going to do to stop it, or if it cannot be stopped, to deal with it. I beleive that even if we stopped every gasoline motor on the planet, theres still so much CO2 in the air that it will be decades before any drop occurs, that means a greater greenhouse effect, higher temps overall, and wierder weather patterns as a result.

Now I’ve also said we can more than likely figure out ways to deal with most of these changes, except one big one, and thats if we start losing the ice sheets on Greenland and Antarctica. As has been pointed out already the melting artic ice sheets has not resulted in any noticatblesea level rise, thats because most all the artic ice is sea ice, floating on the ocean like ice cubes in a soda, the ice is already displaced in the liquid, it melting leaves no change in sea level.

The Ice sheets in greenland and antarctica are land ice, like the glaciers that are slowely receding all over the world. When that ice melts, its not already displaced in the ocean, their WILL be a noticable rise in sea level if they start to melt. If we see the same effects in antarctica as in the arctic, namely large areas becoming ice free during the summer, A: it will mean global temps everywhere else will be much higher than today and the wiorld will be a much unpleasanter place in many locations, and B: many lowlying areas of the world and almost EVERY major and minor seaport will be in serious danger of being flooded out every year when the ice melts.

This could mean MAJOR infrasturcture projects will be not recommended, buy absolute requirements, with many parts of the world being either abandoded or facing major dike and sea wall projects just ike the Netherlands.

Its THIS scenario that no one in power wants to make contingency plans for, at the very least risk assessment and mitigation plans should be being done, but no one wants to accused of crying “the sky is falling” and “wasting taxpayer money” on “pork barrel pie in the sky” projects like a sea dike to keep downtown Manhattan from going under 5 feet of water each winter.

Time will tell, we dont know what the long term effects will be, we may just end up with much more extremes each summer and winter, more hot and arid during the summers and much colder and snowier during the winters. We just dont know what going to happen, every year is a new experiment.

PS… its 82 degrees here today @ 8:30 am, sorry Chicago.

TonyWalsham said:
Ralph. That is a rather long stretch of reality to associate me with Dubya.
I got a good laugh out of it, hope you did the same :D Ralph

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Interesting read. So Bush Derangement Syndrome exists even on the old sod.

Steve Featherkile said:
Interesting read. So Bush Derangement Syndrome exists even on the old sod.
Yes, Bush is deranged no matter where he goes
TonyWalsham said:
Ralph Berg said:
TonyWalsham said:
Ralph. That is a rather long stretch of reality to associate me with Dubya.
I got a good laugh out of it, hope you did the same :D Ralph
A laugh from trying to associate me with Dubya, or the Boris Johnson piece itself?
Both. It wasn't my intent to associate you with Bush. The fact it came out that way, was very funny to me. Ralph
mike omalley said:
Steve Featherkile said:
Interesting read. So Bush Derangement Syndrome exists even on the old sod.
Yes, Bush is deranged no matter where he goes
I just cannot understand why you hate the man so much.

???
I don’t hate the guy at all, although I think he has probably been the worst president in American history. And he does seem deranged to me, But hate him? no.

PS I don’t hate James Buchanan either.