Large Scale Central

1/8th scale Baldwin Westinghouse Electric Freight Motor

Other Scales
#34

Well, a few months have gone by and no updates to this build for a while. We have been busy getting the remaining six cabs riveted. In the meantime, I was doing some research and designing the model louvered panel doors that were installed on the end hoods of these 1600 series locomotives. We were trying to decide if we wanted to have louvered panels made. These louvers were the result of that idea. These were actual louvers, but not to scale. AND we add to attach each panel together to make one large panel door. Bad idea…back to the drawing board and the computer.

Then last May, I saw a company advertisement on Backyard Railroading Facebook site. A small foundry near Kent, Ohio specializing in unusual detail items for 1" and 1-1/2" scale detail castings and 3D printing work. I contacted the owner of Fair Weather Foundry and asked if he was interested in a project. He was and he said to send a photo of the actual louvered doors on a prototype P.E. electric engine and he would see what he could do. I have quite a few photos of the #1624 P.E. freight motor at Orange Empire Trolley Museum here in So. California. I found a photo and sent it off to him.

This is the photo and the closeup of the louvered doors.

AND the closeup…

I had my answer overnight! He took the photograph and embedded it in AutoDesk Fusion 360 software. I think many of us use this software to do 3D printing here on LSC. The photos below show how the photo became an actual mold for a sand casting in aluminum!

From this Fusion 360 drawing, the foundry 3D printed the master model for the sand mold casting. Took one hour to “print” the master. He did some finish work to get rid of the tool marks and pressed the master into the sand.

These are the results and the finish aluminjum castings. The crazy thing is that the technology was so fluid throughout the process. No charge to print the mold and $15 each for the castings!

We have to do some milling around the raised area of the casting so it will fit the existing opening in our hoods.

This was the first casting and hjad some blow holes and fall away of the sand. He sent this along for checking dimensions. All in all, it was a great experiment. It opens up a whole new world in making EXACT castings from any photograph!

#35

Gary,

Thanks for sharing. That is so cool! Technology seems to be changing everything.

#36

Finally after finishing the scratch-build of the 1-1/2 inch scale #5 turnout in 7-1/2 inch gauge (took way too long to build that thing!), I got back to work on my two Baldwin P.E. boxcab electrics. Both the 35 yr. old engine and it’s brand new sister have had design changes throughout the build. One thing we always wanted to be able to do is to remove the heavy steel cabs when we wanted to work on the electronics or recharge the twin batteries after a long run. In the original design of these electrics done by West Valley Live Steamers in the Bay Area near San Francisco. They used huge steel clips in the four corners of the cab to center the cab on the .090’ thick plate. The weight of the cab held it down to the deck. But once you added all the electronics and wiring, it was difficult to drop the cab into place (especially at night). I did a little design drawing to come up with a more efficient way to easily locate and stilll hold the cabs snug so there was no rattling when running.

When I had a design, I started to make these on the mill. I used 1X1 aluminum angle and 1/4 inch thick aluminum plate. The photo below shows the design. Two 2/56 Allen head cap screws and nuts hold the 1/4 inch plate aluminum in the 1X1 alum angle stock. As a comparison of size, the slot in the aluminum is .060 wide (the material in the cab is .055 thick steel plate. You can see where the large steel clips were originally located and how much smaller the new locators are. It was a very tight squeeze to be about to use the tap drill for the tap for a 6/32 screw. I just didn’t feel moving the instrument panel to get the extra room I needed. I used a Craftsman flexible shaft rotary tool to drill for the tap size. Still wasn’t that much room to work. Even in this large scale, you can still have tight areas to work in. The hole for the 6/32 tap is .106".

I used the locator block as a “guide” to keep the tap vertical and square. I had to clear one corner of the block so it would miss the two wires going through the deck and supplying electrical power to a small ditch light that shows the trucks at night. These come on with the headlights.

One locator block in place and install complete.

One new block installed on the left with one of the original steel clips still showing on the right. That comes out tomorrow and then the old engine is upgraded.

This shot shows the completed new blocks at the front of the cab. you can see how the cab steel fits right down into the small slot. You might be wondering why the cleco clamp shows in the photo…well the hoods are fastened to the cab ends with four 8/32 bolts and nuts. But I had to have a way to remove the screws once the cab was in place (using the old steel clip to keep everything aligned. But there was just not enough room for my fingers to constantly be putting the screws in and thing taking them out every time I wanted to mark the new locations for the alum blocks. Quick way to solve that was to use two cleco clamps…easy on, easy off.

In this final shot, you can see how difficult it is to get access to this block.

That’s all for tonight. One more to add tomorrow and this engine is done. Windows are all in place along with the two engineer doors. I DID order and recived two full sets of decals from our friend Stan Cedarleaf. Custom sheets for cab numbers, hood numbers and reporting marks made to P.E. standards. Thanks Stan. :slight_smile:

#37

You crafty devil you …

#38

Working on our Pacific Electric Baldwin/Westinghouse electric box cabs again.

The P.E. pneumatic trolley pole used on these engines were first introduced by P.E. about a hundred years ago for these box cab freight locos. They proved to be very successful, so they were used on their interurban passenger cars as well up and until P.E. ceased operations here in Southern California in the mid 60’s. I always had trouble researching these poles because any photos taken of them was always taken far away and never any detail. No dimensions either. I finally found a member of Orange Empire Trolley Museum in Perris, CA who offered to get me all the photos I needed and dimensions to actually model one of these.

So after compiling all the photos and dimensions and studying how many parts it took to make one, I started doing drawings in MasterCam. As you can see from this closeup photo, the assembly was fairly complicated at “first look”. As you can see from this first photo, they were always taken from far away and no real detail to work from.

Then I got photos like the one below with all kinds of detail. With the dimensions that I received, it was easy to break down the parts and start the drawings.

This is the drawing I finally came up with…the separate parts are on various “levels” so that I can break down each piece and have it assembled in the correct position. There are about 170–175 different levels in this drawing! Each part is surfaced and filleted just like the steel castings on the prototype and the photo. More screenshots of the drawing below.

This drawing is shown with all the parametric surfaces in place with shading turned ON.

This is the same drawing with the shading turned OFF.

This is the same drawing except that THIS is a solid body now. If some of you have 3D printed parts using Fusion 360 or some other software to generate 3D printer tool paths, then you probably understand the difference. Most, if not all 3D printers will only accept solid models. The great thing about MasterCam is that I made the solid body from the surfaces only. I didn’t have to produce the solid body in Fusion 360. Big time saver! I can now import this solid body INTO Fusion 360 directly as a file converted to IGES. Saves a lot of converting of files for Shapeways, etc.

This screenshot shows the solid body after I imported to my MacBook Pro. I can now manipulate the drawing in this software for 3D printing. Because Fusion 360 runs in the “Cloud”, Nothing is actually saved on my computer. The great thing about using the cloud is that the man who be doing the molds for these parts, has access to my drawings to do his “thing”. As soon as he makes a design change or wants to discuss certain parts of the molds, I can see these changes on my MacBook in real time. Technology is so cool now for the hobbyist. BTW, Fusion 360 can be used for free from Desktop just by saying you are a “hobbyist” or starup business making less than $100K per year. You just renew the software access license each year by clicking a button on the software. You have full access to tech supoort and all turorials that are available. Great system. AND Fusion 360 now has full CAM capability to generate tool paths on a CNC mill or lathe. Same tool paths that I have on my $15K MasterCam seat. The cost of Fusion 360 is $495 per year otherwise.

I’m waiting on my foundry guy to take a olook at these first two castings for the trolley pole. I have quite a few more parts in the drawing to make the surfaces “watertight” and then generate the solid bodies for the next few molds. All the parts will be cast 6061 aluminum and fastened together with scale micro fasteners hex head bolts and nuts. Most of the bolts will be 0-80, 1-72 or 2-56.

#39

Looks safe to say that this thread qualifies as informative and educational.

#40

Very cool stuff Gary, your ability using those programs astounds me. Just out of curiosity how does riding behind that locomotive work out with that trolley poll sticking back in your face?

#41

Rick Marty said:

Very cool stuff Gary, your ability using those programs astounds me. Just out of curiosity how does riding behind that locomotive work out with that trolley poll sticking back in your face?

Rick,

I have been using MasterCam since about 1992 or 1993. The last die shop I worked for before my retirement wanted to get into NC milling of forging dies. So the owner and I decided we needed to learn the software so when he purchased a new Haas horizontal CNC mill ($150K+ investment), we had no choice but to take the risk and get it done. Lots of head scratching for a year or so, lots of frustration during the learning curve (lost some money along the way. But eventually everything “clicked” and we were on our way. Never looked back. I have been convinced to try Fusion 360 from a number of folks on the Chaski (Home Machinist website) and quite a few vendors that sell detail 3D printed parts for the ride-on scales. The Fair Weather Foundry back in Kent, Ohio is owned by a guy named Marty Pinkston. He started using 360 a few years ago to make molds for detail parts in 1" and 1.5" scale stuff. He was the one that cast our louvered doors for these Baldwin engines using ONLY a photo I provided of the prototype. The technology just “begs” to be used now. And because the software is free to hobbyists, you really can’t pass it up. I actually needed BOTH software products to get what I showed in the previous post. I am faster in drawing in MasterCam than 360. And I can surface a part faster in MC. But 360 gives me the ability to get the files converted to a format that Shapeways or any other 3D vendor can use. They are all just “tools” and I use what I feel most comfortable with. &5 is “probably” a little late to be learning this stuff, but it does keep the “gray matter” from decomposing!

As far as the trolley pole getting in your face when running these engines, the fact of the matter is that the trolley wheel on the end of the pole sits just above the center of the rear coupler. Never gets in the way. The total length of the finished pole is a little over 26 inches. Take a look at the first photo of the prototype #1624 engine and you can see that it falls short of the end of the locomotive. So that is not an issue.

#42

Great set of posts. Great work!

As a one time model engineer I just love ''em .

#43

Gary, I have thoroughly enjoyed following this project and the detailed description of each phase of it that you have posted. The craftsmanship on this project is marveled only by the way that you presented it.

#44

Man …He’s good @ this Ha ! … How much is left for this engine?

#45

Sean McGillicuddy said:

Man …He’s good @ this Ha ! … How much is left for this engine?

Sean,

My wife keeps asking me this same question…“maybe” six months to complete. Depends on the PE trolley pole castings. Still waiting for a response from Marty Pinkston at Fairweather Foundry in Kent, Ohio. We are hoping that the castings will show the detail we want for this engine. I will be discussing the molds with the owner of the foundry because some of these castings involve multi-level “parting lines” and locks. I will do a drawing in MasterCam to show what the molds will look like and post them. Lots of “die design” experience needed to do this correctly. BTW, thanks for the comment :).

#46

While waiting for the response from our foundry on the trolley pole castings, I started the milling machine work on the cast aluminum louver door panel castings we received from the same foundry late last year. There is a small edge that gets milled into the casting so it will fit the same opening in our sheet steel hoods. Because there are four of these panels per engine and all of them have to fit the same rectangular holes, it’s always best to make a “fixture” to hold the part. No guess work on location for multiple parts. I have eight panels to do for TWO engines, so the fixture was mandatory.

Photo below is a screenshot of the fixture with the template of my mill table embedded in the drawing. This helps with the locations of hold down clamps and bolts for both the fixture and the part. Make the “mistakes” on the computer, not in the shop :)!

Then go out in the shop and make the fixture and attach to the mill table.

Fixture is just a “quick and dirty” build. I used 3/4 poplar, machined BOTH sides flat and true. Machined a nice “match edge” on one side so it lines up the same way each time the fixture is put on the mill table.

Used my pin nailer to fasten two match strips to the fixure while it was still setup and took a "skinny cut on the match strips so they are exactly square and poerpendiculat to each other. No guess work this way. Tried the louver casting and sits nice and square in the fixture.

The small amount of shimming used UNDER the casting is so that the FACE of the louver casting is straight and true to the hood opening… I do the long cut first and then use the side clamps to hold the part. Remove the end clamps and proceed to mill the end flats. By using the dial readings on the mill, each part is indentical.

Thusly :)…

First panel tried and fit in place. Just seven more to go. Have those finished tomorrow.

#47

Gary it looks like you’re still having fun … using tools and working on train related things…

Very nice work …(https://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-laughing.gif)

#48

I had some time today to do the painting on the aluminum lover door castings. Nice warm day for this work (85 degrees today-sorry East Coast :slight_smile: ). A couple of photos taken today and the last one, shows one of the lover door panels install on my old Baldwin electric.

I had a little file work to do on some of these castings where the sand mold gave way during the “pour”. Not too difficult to do with small needle files. I don’t think you can notice the “flaws” in these photos. There is a saying in the ride-on hobby…Painted black and 5 feet away, you’ll never notice it!

The area around the louver door opening still needs painting (the entire cab body will be repainted and relettered with custom decals from our own Stan Cedarleaf (already purchased) The reddish brown area is where the old louvers were located.

Now to go outside (out of the air conditioned house :slight_smile: ) and get the other four grills painted.

#49

Just caught up with craftsman build

It is truly amazing work

#50

The rivet counters should be happy … very nice detail … (https://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-laughing.gif)

#51

Gary,

Great work on the Class A. The Illinois Traction Society Spring Issue 2019 has a complete write up on these units, that they created in their Shop. Would you like a copy of it?

#52

Ric Golding said:

Gary,

Great work on the Class A. The Illinois Traction Society Spring Issue 2019 has a complete write up on these units, that they created in their Shop. Would you like a copy of it?

Ric,

Yes I would :). Is there a link for it?

#53

Sean McGillicuddy said:

The rivet counters should be happy … very nice detail … (https://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-laughing.gif)

Sean,

Thank you AND they are the “real deal”. Solid copper, round head. Each one personally hand-riveted in place. They truly hold the cab together :).