Large Scale Central

1:29 vs 1:32

So Burl’s new car build and the discussion of switching to 1:32 because of true prototype fidelity has me wondering why 1:29 exists and why is it seemingly more popular? Since I am a 1:20.3 guy at heart and somewhat of a rivet counter (guestimater) I like things to be to scale. But I did just buy a 1:29 diesel and 1:29 LGB car for a little project. I really wont care that 1:29 isn’t right as I am not going to be fussy but it does somewhat irk me that it isn’t right when right seems just as easy to make.

So what was the purpose of 1:29 or is it arbitrary?

The WOW factor. 1:32 just looks like 0 scale’s slightly older brother.

And, despite what folks will tell you, 1:32 is not true scale to gauge. The gauge is slightly wide for scale. Craig’s Proto 29 is the only true scale/gauge, but it doesn’t run on 1.75 inch ( Gauge 1) gauge track.

Here’s a cliché answer: Because it is closest to the LGB format that started the hobby AND it results in the largest size of rolling stock that can “fit” on the LGB-dimensioned track. “Fit” means that the hobby manufacturers have promoted the size - notice “scale” is not the criteria - and attained enough sales acceptance to make it an alternative to LGB.

HOWEVER, run the 1:32 accurate-sized large MTH engines with the mix of 1:24 and 1:29 rolling stock and there are smiles. Yep, the 1:1 real trains have a myriad of different sized box cars, flats, and tankers.

I finally found the answer I was looking for, and it mirrors what both have said. So 1:29 was simply a bigger must be better mentality and caught on and others just joined the band wagon. Got it.

And no I am not going Craig’s Proto29 way. I will stick to counting rivets in 1:20.3 and play with my 1:29.

Steve, I have to disagree with your statement that 1:32 is not true scale to gauge. Standard gauge is 4’ 8.5" (56.5"). G1MRA standards allow for a track gauge range of 56" to 56.7". NMRA standards allow for a range from 56.5" - 57". The “target value” (45mm, or 1.772") scales to 56.7". Prototype standard gauge track has an acceptable gauge tolerance of 56" to 57.5" for what is termed “Class 5” track (the tightest tolerances). Both model standards are tighter than the prototype track standards in terms of acceptable ranges, and the target 56.5" falls within both sets of standards.

In terms of “why 1:29,” Wendell may think it cliche, but it’s accurate. It was simply the visual size. The smaller 1:32 models never grabbed the attention of folks when running alongside the 1:22 and 1:24 models. When the scale was bumped to 1:29, the models took up the same physical size, and folks accepted them. It should be noted that many of Piko’s models of European prototypes are built to 1:26 for the same reason. European standard gauge trains are slightly smaller than their US counterparts, thus the scale ends up being a bit larger so the models end up all being the same size. (And European 1:32 has a very strong following, so this is definitely a conscious choice by them to cater their models to the “G scale” size mentality.)

Later,

K

If you use a print from HO(1/87), 1/29 means you just multiply dimensions by 3 for 1/29.

According to the Polk’s, 1:29 was chosen because the trains matched the size of the earlier 3 rail Standard Gauge. Its as good a theory as any other. (http://largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-cool.gif)

Kevin, you will stipulate that at 1:32, 45 mm represents track wider than 56.5, though, right? (http://largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-innocent.gif)

So the answer is because its bigger and we all know size matters…

Yeah, that’s about right. (http://largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-cool.gif)

I like the 1/32 on my layout. Can run long trains without taking up a lot of track space. Have about half a dozen 1/29 cars I seldom run. I just hook up my 1/32’s to my few 1/29 locos I have, 2 Pacifics and 2 based on Pacifics and a RS-3, and my original FA’s(A unit has an E-8 nose) and my Shark, guess that’s it. Well, my LS Mikado, but it seems 1/32 to me. I have 3 MTH steamers, a dash 8 and getting a F-3AA set soon.

Steve, mathematically, 45mm (1.772") scales to 56.7" at 1:32. But you must also consider that 1 3/4" has also long been established as the imperial equivalent target gauge for 1:32 / gauge 1, and has likewise been used by modelers and manufacturers for decades on end as the “standard” track gauge. (History is not clear on which of the two measurements was “first.”) That scales to 56" So, you’ve got parallel accepted “standard” gauges for gauge 1 track, neither of which are specifically 56.5", each falling on either side of that specific value, but both falling within the acceptable tolerances for prototypical standard gauge. (56" to as wide as 58.5" for slow-order industrial track.)

Later,

K

And the battle goes on… (http://largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-laughing.gif)

Yeah and damn me for dragging it up. I didn’t want to quibble over a few tenths of an inch. Really the answer that because bigger is better would have worked.

Devon,

Your approaching this all wrong… You see, you need to just be modeling standard gauge in 1:20.3… Then you have to scratch build everything, and it towers over your narrow gauge.

On a serious note, I’ve always thought that 1:29 was close enough, but the more I looked at track and wheel interfaces in both large scale and small scale, I began to notice the difference. Ideally, I would like to have a full Proto:29 track and wheel standards, but that would require a lot of work. P:48 works, but I doubt anyone has attempted to take it outdoors. For now it’s just a big experiment that may get pushed aside for one reason… If my little boy gets his own Playmobile train, it wouldn’t be able to run on P:29 track, but it would on Gauge 1. (http://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-undecided.gif)

Craig, that could easily be solved by laying dual gauge track.

What I chuckle about is… the more Kevin goes on about how 1:32 running on 45 mm track is scale, the more he proves my point. Its scale if you run gummie scale. At least 1:29 is honest about it. (http://largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-laughing.gif)

Craig,

I actually have thought about building at least a display piece that is 1:20.3 standard gauge. But that has to be a way back burner project.

But I hesitated even to ask this because I knew it was a touchy subject. For me for sure 1:29 is just fine for my standard gauge adventures. The stuff is available and looks just fine for taking to club meets which is all the farther I plan to take it. I will get my rivet counting fix in 1:20.3.

All I wanted to know is why if 1:32 is scale (Steve I get your point, but for the few thou that its off I will call it scale) and was first then why anyone ever decided on 1:29. But I also get that men are preoccupied with size and bigger must be better. I have to admit 1:20 looks better that 1:29 and them damn 7/8 guys really have it made. So I get it.

Craig Townsend said:

For now it’s just a big experiment that may get pushed aside for one reason… If my little boy gets his own Playmobile train, it wouldn’t be able to run on P:29 track, but it would on Gauge 1. (http://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-undecided.gif)

Yeah those little buggers derail a lot of the best laid plans, but they’re worth it. Just think of it as your track work getting much easier.

Oh yeah Devon, incase your wandering about Craig’s first comment, 1:20.3 F scale standard gauge is 71mm or 2.783" They do make tie strips for that…

People used to ask about scale at the Botanic. I’d say, “45mm is almost exactly 1/32 of 4’ 8 1/2”, so we model standard gauge in 1:29 so people who want to feel superior can say, ‘I use the CORRECT scale of 1/32.’"

Lewis once told me that when he made a 1/32 car, it just didn’t have the HEFT of the 1/29 size. He also had to “look right” in a consist of LGB equipment.

Randy Lehrian Jr. said:

Oh yeah Devon, incase your wandering about Craig’s first comment, 1:20.3 F scale standard gauge is 71mm or 2.783" They do make tie strips for that…

Oh yes unfortunately I am well aware of it and it is just calling my name. . . says the poor guy who can afford 45mm track. I have a grandiose idea of this totally awesome layout that encompasses the whole yard of my new house that I move into because my wife divorced me that has a section of F standard, a section of Fn3, and a section of Fn2, and maybe even a F min gauge. But then I woke up and realized I am still married to a wonderful woman that I love more than trains and she has been gracious in giving me a part of HER yard that I must live with. (http://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-cool.gif)

Ahhh but to dream is a wonderful thing.