Large Scale Central

1:29 Challenger Kitbash

Modeling
#1

I am in need of assistance with a new project I have acquired.

My problem is the original builder used very early Pacific drive units and in building the Challenger he removed the motor mount areas. I don’t know how he planned to power this thing but I could use some advise on how to complete it. My current options as I see them are as follows: 1) rebuild the old blocks ( I need the drive shafts, bushings and motors). This requires finding a place in these areas for motors and mounts. Here are pics of the modified drive units.

  1. Acquire new Pacific motor blocks and fit them. I forsee the same problem as above in that I will have to find a way to squeeze the motor and mount into those same saddle areas. 3) Convert an SD45 block to Pacific drive wheels. This would require removing the original SD45 mount tabs and fashioning new attachment points. However since the motors are internal to the blocks I won’t have to locate space for them in the saddle areas. I have compared the original blocks used, an SD45 block and a Mikado block. The spacing of the original Pacific units and the SD45 block are the same. I could possibly use an SD45 block turn the axles and drill for a cross pins and use the original Pacific wheels but think that might be more trouble than its worth. However depending on the availability or new Pacific drive wheels it may be the only option. I look forward to hearing from you. Andre’ PS I am also looking for a Vandy tender for this loco. I have three long tenders to either trade or sell. One is a UP, the other a Great Northern and the last a Lablaw (?) lettered. UP is complete, the GN is just the shell and frame and the other is complete but no sound system inside. I can swap parts among any of them to get what someone may want. Andre’
#2

Andre ,
I can offer no advice , but I can offer encouragement . It may look daunting at the moment , but I bet someone on this forum will come up with at least a pointer of how to go .
Stick with it , and I wish you the best of luck ;enjoy the problem , it’s worth solving
Mike

#3

OK Ol Boy…you have covered the most obvious things I would think of…the SD motorblocks overall would prolly be your best option…the only other suggestion I could make would be to get a NWSL GEarbox and cobble up a fitting motor mount…

#4

Andre’,
I would suggest making two 0-6-0 switchers out of the mess…they would be more usefull than a big locomotive like that. Or you could build two Pacifics .

But then, maybe all you want it for is a "Shelf Princess…!!!

#5

Do I have ANY “shelf Princesses” ? I don’t think so… Here’s the view of the area in question:

views of a Mikado block in position over the old Pacific blocks

As one replier noted…there were no Challengers with drive wheels the size of the Pacific. That being the case, plus the minor fact that I have one extra Mikado block already, I am leaning towards the use of Mikado blocks. The SD45 blocks still offer a benefit in that I wouldn’t have to work out a scheme to fit the motor extensions in the tight places. However using the Mikado wheels on an SD45 block might mean problems locating or making drive rods. Decisions, decisions… Andre’

#6
Fred Mills said:
Andre', I would suggest making two 0-6-0 switchers out of the mess.....they would be more usefull than a big locomotive like that. Or you could build two Pacifics .

But then, maybe all you want it for is a "Shelf Princess…!!!


Useful to you, perhaps, Fred. If I was in Andre’s shoes, Id build a challenger, too. I have enough switchers, but need more mainline motive power.

#7

after two evenings of scratching my head and judicious cutting and fitting I have the following:

Once the rear drive was fitted I used the same Mikado block and started on the front drive unit. I completed it this evening. No pics yet… It was a bit more challenging as I had to cut the area holding the motor extension so it was still a one piece assembly. It had to hold the pilot, cylinders and motor block . Turned out quite well. I shall get pics tomorrow/ I think the cylinder and driver centerlines are close enough to work without problems. I intend to redo the valve gear mounting also. The original builder used epoxy for much of the construction. Its not my first choice on styrene and when mating meatl to plastic I prefer and screw in addition to whatever glue is advertised to work! Andre’

#8

Well here’s pics of last night’s work:

I also played a bit with the rear drive assy. Someone ahead of me had cut a chunk out of the cylinder mounting area. I was able to reattach portions of what I cut off when fitting around the motor extension. I’ll need to add some reinforcement pieces along side them to restore the cylinder mounting capability.

#9

You are going to have one NICE locomotive when done. Keep going and leave the nay sayers in the dust…cut it up and make 2 locomotives???..BAH!

Warren

#10

Thanks Warren. This has been a real learning experience…and another chapter in the saga… It appears that I am indeed building a Yellowstone! After the reworking of the drive assemblies I discover the oriinal 4 wheel leading truck would no longer fit under the front pilot. Primarily this was due to the motor extension on the Mikado block.

This is how I modified the leading truck

Andre’

#11

I also did some patch work around the rear cylinders as they mount area there had been cut up more than needed earlier.

The trailing truck needed a bit of work to convert it to 4 wheel and fit under the rear drive assy.

Finally this evening I did a test fit of all the trucks and drive assemblies, excluding the yet to be purchase front drive.

#12

It may not come out as a Challenger, but it definately will be a challenge…:smiley: Seems like you are meeting each problem head on. It 's looking good.

Oh, did I say that I’m expecting you to have it at Marty’s next year…:smiley: :smiley: :smiley:

Warren

#13

you aren’t the only one that has told me that Warren. I too am looking forward to running it on that layout!

So far the problems have not been insurmountable, but I have had plenty of help via email from many folks.

Andre’

#14

Did a little work over the weekend, Darn little since the other side of life got in the way too! I discovered the stock Pacific’s leading truck wheels were too large in diam to swing under the pilot on curves. I searched every wheel set on the pike and thru all the Gary Raymond sets I had too but to no avail. I was on chat here the other nite scrounging for smaller wheels from friends and Norm reminded me of the AMS ore cars I had. Isn’t it great when your friends know more about what you have than you do?? So back to the train room and lo and behold they are a perfect size !! Thanks Norm! Their axles are smaller than the Aristo so a minor mod had to be done.

I did some more work on the patching on the rear drive mount

Then fit a Kadee to the front pilot

Andre’

#15

I screwed and glued a mounting post to the rear of the motor block for the trailing truck

Then I cut out the windows on the cab modifications

I scrounged a Pacific backhead from the parts boxlocated it given the new cab and boiler work then did some detail painting

My work won’t compare to Rex’s or Rocky’s but I am learning! I really need to get that additonal Mikado drive unit… Andre’

#16

Andre, you are having far too much fun…:smiley:

But keep going, I’m enjoying this!!

Warren

#17

Just a minor update:

Thanks to Rocky I acquired a bunch of bashing parts and the front drive assy for a Mallet. Did a bit of fiddling and swapped the front drive assy I had to the rear and put the Mallet drive assy up front. Had to reposition one pivot point and adjust the level of the pivots to keep the boiler level. Figured I had better check this out on my indoor curves to see if it would make it around.

Turns out it will but will be a tight squeeze. Then decided to try powering it up and see how things were going to function. After wiring it up to a trail car I had I discovered the Mallet front drive was out of quarter so badly it wouldn’t turn over except at warp speed.

Now I am in on this complaint a long time after everyone else but,

WHAT FRIGGIN IDIOT DECIDED RED LOCTITE WAS SUITABLE FOR USE ON THE DAMN DRIVER SCREWS!!

Took me an hour with a heavy duty soldering iron to remove the screws. I’d get them hot, quick grab the screw driver and make a couple turns before the loctite set again. Then have to heat the screw and start all over. What a PIA!! I had to remove the rods to get to two of the screws and ends up they used the same crap on the hex screws holding the rods on!!! GRRRRrrrrrr!

Wrecked two driver screws and broke the first hex rod screw getting the things apart. I need to take a chill pill before I get back to cleaning the threads out. Anyone have a suggestion for what may dissolve the loctite in the threaded holes?

Andre’

#18

No suggestions for loctite remover Andre , but you really are making a good job of that , it looks very nice indeed .
I do hope that your patience lasts the course and sees a solution for the Loctite . Maybe you ought to run a tap down it , that will certainly help if you have the access . Lubricate the tap with hot water fed from a hypodermic needle , surround the job with kitchen tissue to keep it moderately dry . I know of some solvents , but they may attack the wheels .

Mike

#19

Well it appears laquer thinner dissolves the loctite a bit. Softened some at least. I had to use a pointed scraper to get the chunks of dried loctite out of the wheel recesses. Sheesh some one got very carried away with the stuff!

But, its all back together and other than needing a replacement rod hex screw, its been substituted with a standard screw at this point, all is fine. Its running nicely on rollers at the bench as I type this. Might just be able to try running the two blocks and partially completed shell this weekend.

Andre’

#20

After the above work I figured I should see how the blocks matched up for speed. Well… they don’t. Not even close. Figured it was a case of a new block vs. an old one and left the Mallet drive running for a couple days in various directions and speeds.

No change. Then last night, was on MLS and brought it up to the crew. One smart cookie asked about the motors. Me says, same block has to be same motor.

NOT!!!

The Mikado and Pacific share the same actual motor. The Mallet, Mikado and Pacific appear to share the same motor block. Maybe… The Mallet motor is about 1/4 inch longer than the Mikado motor. At slowest RPMs the Mallet block assy turns at one half the speed of the Mikado block assy. I’m hoping its merely a case of a different motor and not a complete different set of gears and motor. Without the parts breakdown I’ll have to wait until a replacement motor for the Mallet block(a new Mikado motor) to answer that question.

A bit of added info here…

Appears from opening one gear box of each block (Mikado and Mallet) that they are the same. The motor on the Mallet is marked “K-7224C382” 2nd to last number may be different as its hard to read.

No sticker on it like the usual Aristo markings. It fills the motor area completely with the boss at the hex drive end fitting nicely into the mounting. Hex drive appears to be the same as on the Mikado.